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128.59.149.20
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Changed line(s) 1 from:
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@Rebochan, The word \
to:
@Rebochan, The word \\\"hate\\\" seems to get thrown around a lot here, and I think that\\\'s rather unkind. People who criticize a character don\\\'t necessarily hate the character.
I for one, don\\\'t \\\"hate\\\" Mako, I just don\\\'t care for him. The person who I linked to didn\\\'t \\\"hate\\\" Mako, and actually loved the series. People can critic without hating a character.
That said, rather than going through your list and responding point for point on what can be a very subjective matter, I\\\'m going to ask you to come up with a better example than Mako on the CreatorsPet Western Animation Page. Because most of what I see there is more than enough to put Mako on the list.
If you want to nuke the page as a list of bad examples, so be it, but they all have multiple things in common with Mako to the point where I can replace a few names and have things fit.
\\\"Taffy the babysitter from Rugrats was praised by all the characters in the show, but not so much love from the fans as she clearly existed so Amanda Bynes could star in another Nickelodeon show.\\\"
Mako the firebender from LoK was praised by all the characters in the show, but not so much love from the fans as he clearly existed as homage to late voice actor Mako Iwatsu.
Are you going to remove that one as well?
Now, @ Ironeye
I would disagree with your listed givens.
1.)\\\"Mako has always been one of the three characters with the most focus;\\\"
Mako was introduced at the same time as Bolin. Can you honestly tell me you saw from the beginning that he would get so much more focus than Bolin did?
Can you honestly tell me that the show presented him early on as an important element to the main goals of Korra learning airbending and defeating Amon?
Let\\\'s focus on airbending specifically, we are told that Korra needs to learn airbending, who is that is supposed to teach her? Mako? No, Tenzin.
Tenzin tries to instruct her on airbending movements, but she learns better from pro-bending. Is it Mako who shows her the importance of avoidance in combat? No, Bolin.
Tenzin instructs Korra to become more spiritual in an attempt to contact Aang. Does Mako help her do this in any way? No, she manages to contact Aang completely on her own when trapped in the metal box.
So tell me, how does Mako being the key to Korra unlocking her airbending seem like a natural progression of events?
Korra unlocking airbending on her own through connecting with her own spirituality would be a natural progression of events, since she did it before.
Korra unlocking airbending through Tenzin\\\'s help would be a natural progression of events since she\\\'s worked with Tenzin before.
Korra unlocking airbending through advice from Bolin would be a natural progression of events since she\\\'s recieved important advice from him before.
Korra unlocking airbending because Mako is in trouble is not a natural progression of events, since there were many times he and the people close to her were in trouble without her unlocking airbending (vs the mechas for one, where \\\'\\\'everybody\\\'\\\' she cares about is lying beaten on the floor to be electrocuted or worse).
The fact that Mako\\\'s \\\'\\\'\\\'last minute\\\'\\\'\\\' plot importance is not a natural progression of events makes it an example of Character Focus.
2.) \\\"Mako and Korra\\\'s relationship has always been presented as a focus of the show;\\\"
But it was not preseneted as the plot the story sets up originally. What we learn from Episode 1 is that
A.) Korra needs to learn airbending to become a fully realized Avatar, which is the Avatar\\\'s Duty to become; and
B.) Republic City is unbalanced, and it\\\'s the Avatar\\\'s duty to bring balance to the world.
These are the two reasons why Korra is even in Republic City in the first place. Notice that \\\"finding a boyfriend\\\" is not listed as a reason and therefore not part of the overarching plot that the story is trying to resolve.
That Mako is shoehorned into the resolution of these two things that were protrayed as the \\\"Avatar\\\'s Duty\\\" is an example of Character Focus.
3.)\\\"There was never a requirement that Korra\\\'s fight against Amon be a \\\"solo round\\\";\\\"
Let me share with you an excerpt from the previous series, taken from the transcript of \\\"Day of Black Sun Part 2\\\"
Zuko: But I\\\'ve come to an even more important decision. [Closes eyes and momentarily pauses.] I\\\'m gonna join the Avatar and I\\\'m going to help him defeat you.
Ozai:[Smugly.] Really? Since you\\\'re a full-blown traitor now and you want me gone, why wait? I\\\'m powerless. You\\\'ve got your swords. Why don\\\'t you just do it now?
Zuko: Because I know my own destiny. Taking you down is the Avatar\\\'s destiny. [Puts his swords away.]
One of the key themes in both AtLA and LoK is the issue of the Avatar\\\'s destiny and the Avatar\\\'s Duty. The things specified as such are taken to mean things that have to do alone.
You can say that this was from another series, but Korra puts emphasis on her duty as the Avatar all the time (coming to Republic City, saving those people \\\"You\\\'re our Avatar too\\\", even in Season 2 with \\\"the south is spiritually unbalanced, yada yada yada\\\").
These are all things that are taken to mean that Korra will be handling the issue in a one on one combat. Note that this does not mean that her friends will stand around and do nothing, but that her friends will play important roles elsewhere in the story, such as how the GAang may not have helped fight Ozai (the Avatar\\\'s Duty), but the jobs they did were of equal importance in taking him down.
The requirement that Amon vs. Korra would be a 1-v-1 was set up since the first episode, and is a natural progression of events.
Interesting to note, you can argue that Korra needing friends and people to help her was an important story element at one point, but in that case she should have brought \\\'\\\'all\\\'\\\' of her friends to better hit the message of needing help, instead of just her boyfriend.
Mako being the Scrappy or terribly written actually has \\\'\\\'\\\'very little\\\'\\\'\\\' to do with the fact that if the story followed a natural progression of events, he wouldn\\\'t be \\\'\\\'\\\'the\\\'\\\'\\\' necessary component in the overarching plot that was presented as strictly Korra\\\'s, the Avatar\\\'s, Duty.
Avatar\\\'s Duty =/= Avatar & her Boyfriend\\\'s Duty
\\\'\\\'Nobody\\\'\\\', including the better written characters, should be involved with the Avatar\\\'s Duty, save the Avatar herself.
I for one, don\\\'t \\\"hate\\\" Mako, I just don\\\'t care for him. The person who I linked to didn\\\'t \\\"hate\\\" Mako, and actually loved the series. People can critic without hating a character.
That said, rather than going through your list and responding point for point on what can be a very subjective matter, I\\\'m going to ask you to come up with a better example than Mako on the CreatorsPet Western Animation Page. Because most of what I see there is more than enough to put Mako on the list.
If you want to nuke the page as a list of bad examples, so be it, but they all have multiple things in common with Mako to the point where I can replace a few names and have things fit.
\\\"Taffy the babysitter from Rugrats was praised by all the characters in the show, but not so much love from the fans as she clearly existed so Amanda Bynes could star in another Nickelodeon show.\\\"
Mako the firebender from LoK was praised by all the characters in the show, but not so much love from the fans as he clearly existed as homage to late voice actor Mako Iwatsu.
Are you going to remove that one as well?
Now, @ Ironeye
I would disagree with your listed givens.
1.)\\\"Mako has always been one of the three characters with the most focus;\\\"
Mako was introduced at the same time as Bolin. Can you honestly tell me you saw from the beginning that he would get so much more focus than Bolin did?
Can you honestly tell me that the show presented him early on as an important element to the main goals of Korra learning airbending and defeating Amon?
Let\\\'s focus on airbending specifically, we are told that Korra needs to learn airbending, who is that is supposed to teach her? Mako? No, Tenzin.
Tenzin tries to instruct her on airbending movements, but she learns better from pro-bending. Is it Mako who shows her the importance of avoidance in combat? No, Bolin.
Tenzin instructs Korra to become more spiritual in an attempt to contact Aang. Does Mako help her do this in any way? No, she manages to contact Aang completely on her own when trapped in the metal box.
So tell me, how does Mako being the key to Korra unlocking her airbending seem like a natural progression of events?
Korra unlocking airbending on her own through connecting with her own spirituality would be a natural progression of events, since she did it before.
Korra unlocking airbending through Tenzin\\\'s help would be a natural progression of events since she\\\'s worked with Tenzin before.
Korra unlocking airbending through advice from Bolin would be a natural progression of events since she\\\'s recieved important advice from him before.
Korra unlocking airbending because Mako is in trouble is not a natural progression of events, since there were many times he and the people close to her were in trouble without her unlocking airbending (vs the mechas for one, where \\\'\\\'everybody\\\'\\\' she cares about is lying beaten on the floor to be electrocuted or worse).
The fact that Mako\\\'s \\\'\\\'\\\'last minute\\\'\\\'\\\' plot importance is not a natural progression of events makes it an example of Character Focus.
2.) \\\"Mako and Korra\\\'s relationship has always been presented as a focus of the show;\\\"
But it was not preseneted as the plot the story sets up originally. What we learn from Episode 1 is that
A.) Korra needs to learn airbending to become a fully realized Avatar, which is the Avatar\\\'s Duty to become; and
B.) Republic City is unbalanced, and it\\\'s the Avatar\\\'s duty to bring balance to the world.
These are the two reasons why Korra is even in Republic City in the first place. Notice that \\\"finding a boyfriend\\\" is not listed as a reason and therefore not part of the overarching plot that the story is trying to resolve.
That Mako is shoehorned into the resolution of these two things that were protrayed as the \\\"Avatar\\\'s Duty\\\" is an example of Character Focus.
3.)\\\"There was never a requirement that Korra\\\'s fight against Amon be a \\\"solo round\\\";\\\"
Let me share with you an excerpt from the previous series, taken from the transcript of \\\"Day of Black Sun Part 2\\\"
Zuko: But I\\\'ve come to an even more important decision. [Closes eyes and momentarily pauses.] I\\\'m gonna join the Avatar and I\\\'m going to help him defeat you.
Ozai:[Smugly.] Really? Since you\\\'re a full-blown traitor now and you want me gone, why wait? I\\\'m powerless. You\\\'ve got your swords. Why don\\\'t you just do it now?
Zuko: Because I know my own destiny. Taking you down is the Avatar\\\'s destiny. [Puts his swords away.]
One of the key themes in both AtLA and LoK is the issue of the Avatar\\\'s destiny and the Avatar\\\'s Duty. The things specified as such are taken to mean things that have to do alone.
You can say that this was from another series, but Korra puts emphasis on her duty as the Avatar all the time (coming to Republic City, saving those people \\\"You\\\'re our Avatar too\\\", even in Season 2 with \\\"the south is spiritually unbalanced, yada yada yada\\\").
These are all things that are taken to mean that Korra will be handling the issue in a one on one combat. Note that this does not mean that her friends will stand around and do nothing, but that her friends will play important roles elsewhere in the story, such as how the GAang may not have helped fight Ozai (the Avatar\\\'s Duty), but the jobs they did were of equal importance in taking him down.
The requirement that Amon vs. Korra would be a 1-v-1 was set up since the first episode, and is a natural progression of events.
Interesting to note, you can argue that Korra needing friends and people to help her was an important story element at one point, but in that case she should have brought \\\'\\\'all\\\'\\\' of her friends to better hit the message of needing help, instead of just her boyfriend.
Mako being the Scrappy or terribly written actually has \\\'\\\'\\\'very little\\\'\\\'\\\' to do with the fact that if the story followed a natural progression of events, he wouldn\\\'t be \\\'\\\'\\\'the\\\'\\\'\\\' necessary component in the overarching plot that was presented as strictly Korra\\\'s, the Avatar\\\'s, Duty.
Avatar\\\'s Duty =/= Avatar & her Boyfriend\\\'s Duty
\\\'\\\'Nobody\\\'\\\', including the better written characters, should be involved with the Avatar\\\'s Duty, save the Avatar herself.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
@Rebochan, The word \
to:
@Rebochan, The word \\\"hate\\\" seems to get thrown around a lot here, and I think that\\\'s rather unkind. People who criticize a character don\\\'t necessarily hate the character.
I for one, don\\\'t \\\"hate\\\" Mako, I just don\\\'t care for him. The person who I linked to didn\\\'t \\\"hate\\\" Mako, and actually loved the series. People can critic without hating a character.
That said, rather than going through your list and responding point for point on what can be a very subjective matter, I\\\'m going to ask you to come up with a better example than Mako on the CreatorsPet Western Animation Page. Because most of what I see there is more than enough to put Mako on the list.
If you want to nuke the page as a list of bad examples, so be it, but they all have multiple things in common with Mako to the point where I can replace a few names and have things fit.
\\\"Taffy the babysitter from Rugrats was praised by all the characters in the show, but not so much love from the fans as she clearly existed so Amanda Bynes could star in another Nickelodeon show.\\\"
Mako the firebender from LoK was praised by all the characters in the show, but not so much love from the fans as he clearly existed as homage to late voice actor Mako Iwatsu.
Are you going to remove that one as well?
Now, @ Ironeye
I would disagree with your listed givens.
1.)\\\"Mako has always been one of the three characters with the most focus;\\\"
Mako was introduced at the same time as Bolin. Can you honestly tell me you saw from the beginning that he would get so much more focus than Bolin did?
Can you honestly tell me that the show presented him early on as an important element to the main goals of Korra learning airbending and defeating Amon?
Let\\\'s focus on airbending specifically, we are told that Korra needs to learn airbending, who is that is supposed to teach her? Mako? No, Tenzin.
Tenzin tries to instruct her on airbending movements, but she learns better from pro-bending. Is it Mako who shows her the importance of avoidance in combat? No, Bolin.
Tenzin instructs Korra to become more spiritual in an attempt to contact Aang. Does Mako help her do this in any way? No, she manages to contact Aang completely on her own when trapped in the metal box.
So tell me, how does Mako being the key to Korra unlocking her airbending seem like a natural progression of events?
Korra unlocking airbending on her own through connecting with her own spirituality would be a natural progression of events, since she did it before.
Korra unlocking airbending through Tenzin\\\'s help would be a natural progression of events since she\\\'s worked with Tenzin before.
Korra unlocking airbending through advice from Bolin would be a natural progression of events since she\\\'s recieved important advice from him before.
Korra unlocking airbending because Mako is in trouble is not a natural progression of events, since there were many times he and the people close to her were in trouble without her unlocking airbending (vs the mechas for one, where \\\'\\\'everybody\\\'\\\' she cares about is lying beaten on the floor to be electrocuted or worse).
The fact that Mako\\\'s \\\'\\\'\\\'last minute\\\'\\\'\\\' plot importance is not a natural progression of events makes it an example of Character Focus.
2.) \\\"Mako and Korra\\\'s relationship has always been presented as a focus of the show;\\\"
But it was not preseneted as the plot the story sets up originally. What we learn from Episode 1 is that
A.) Korra needs to learn airbending to become a fully realized Avatar, which is the Avatar\\\'s Duty to become; and
B.) Republic City is unbalanced, and it\\\'s the Avatar\\\'s duty to bring balance to the world.
These are the two reasons why Korra is even in Republic City in the first place. Notice that \\\"finding a boyfriend\\\" is not listed as a reason and therefore not part of the overarching plot that the story is trying to resolve.
That Mako is shoehorned into the resolution of these two things that were protrayed as the \\\"Avatar\\\'s Duty\\\" is an example of Character Focus.
3.)\\\"There was never a requirement that Korra\\\'s fight against Amon be a \\\"solo round\\\";\\\"
Let me share with you an excerpt from the previous series, taken from the transcript of \\\"Day of Black Sun Part 2\\\"
Zuko: But I\\\'ve come to an even more important decision. [Closes eyes and momentarily pauses.] I\\\'m gonna join the Avatar and I\\\'m going to help him defeat you.
Ozai:[Smugly.] Really? Since you\\\'re a full-blown traitor now and you want me gone, why wait? I\\\'m powerless. You\\\'ve got your swords. Why don\\\'t you just do it now?
Zuko: Because I know my own destiny. Taking you down is the Avatar\\\'s destiny. [Puts his swords away.]
One of the key themes in both AtLA and LoK is the issue of the Avatar\\\'s destiny and the Avatar\\\'s Duty. The things specified as such are taken to mean things that have to do alone.
You can say that this was from another series, but Korra puts emphasis on her duty as the Avatar all the time (coming to Republic City, saving those people \\\"You\\\'re our Avatar too\\\", even in Season 2 with \\\"the south is spiritually unbalanced, yada yada yada\\\").
These are all things that are taken to mean that Korra will be handling the issue in a one on one combat. Note that this does not mean that her friends will stand around and do nothing, but that her friends will play important roles elsewhere in the story, such as how the GAang may not have helped fight Ozai (the Avatar\\\'s Duty), but the jobs they did were of equal importance in taking him down.
The requirement that Amon vs. Korra would be a 1-v-1 was set up since the first episode, and is a natural progression of events.
Interesting to note, you can argue that Korra needing friends and people to help her was an important story element at one point, but in that case she should have brought \\\'\\\'all\\\'\\\' of her friends to better hit the message of needing help, instead of just her boyfriend.
Mako being the Scrappy or terribly written actually has \\\'\\\'\\\'very little\\\'\\\'\\\' to do with the fact that if the story followed a natural progression of events, he wouldn\\\'t be \\\'\\\'\\\'the\\\'\\\'\\\' necessary component in the overarching plot that was presented as strictly Korra\\\'s, the Avatar\\\'s, Duty.
\\\'\\\'Nobody\\\'\\\', including the better written characters, should have that much Character Focus that they are the necessary instrument for the plot to be resolved except for Korra herself. That\\\'s the definition of a Main protagonist.
I for one, don\\\'t \\\"hate\\\" Mako, I just don\\\'t care for him. The person who I linked to didn\\\'t \\\"hate\\\" Mako, and actually loved the series. People can critic without hating a character.
That said, rather than going through your list and responding point for point on what can be a very subjective matter, I\\\'m going to ask you to come up with a better example than Mako on the CreatorsPet Western Animation Page. Because most of what I see there is more than enough to put Mako on the list.
If you want to nuke the page as a list of bad examples, so be it, but they all have multiple things in common with Mako to the point where I can replace a few names and have things fit.
\\\"Taffy the babysitter from Rugrats was praised by all the characters in the show, but not so much love from the fans as she clearly existed so Amanda Bynes could star in another Nickelodeon show.\\\"
Mako the firebender from LoK was praised by all the characters in the show, but not so much love from the fans as he clearly existed as homage to late voice actor Mako Iwatsu.
Are you going to remove that one as well?
Now, @ Ironeye
I would disagree with your listed givens.
1.)\\\"Mako has always been one of the three characters with the most focus;\\\"
Mako was introduced at the same time as Bolin. Can you honestly tell me you saw from the beginning that he would get so much more focus than Bolin did?
Can you honestly tell me that the show presented him early on as an important element to the main goals of Korra learning airbending and defeating Amon?
Let\\\'s focus on airbending specifically, we are told that Korra needs to learn airbending, who is that is supposed to teach her? Mako? No, Tenzin.
Tenzin tries to instruct her on airbending movements, but she learns better from pro-bending. Is it Mako who shows her the importance of avoidance in combat? No, Bolin.
Tenzin instructs Korra to become more spiritual in an attempt to contact Aang. Does Mako help her do this in any way? No, she manages to contact Aang completely on her own when trapped in the metal box.
So tell me, how does Mako being the key to Korra unlocking her airbending seem like a natural progression of events?
Korra unlocking airbending on her own through connecting with her own spirituality would be a natural progression of events, since she did it before.
Korra unlocking airbending through Tenzin\\\'s help would be a natural progression of events since she\\\'s worked with Tenzin before.
Korra unlocking airbending through advice from Bolin would be a natural progression of events since she\\\'s recieved important advice from him before.
Korra unlocking airbending because Mako is in trouble is not a natural progression of events, since there were many times he and the people close to her were in trouble without her unlocking airbending (vs the mechas for one, where \\\'\\\'everybody\\\'\\\' she cares about is lying beaten on the floor to be electrocuted or worse).
The fact that Mako\\\'s \\\'\\\'\\\'last minute\\\'\\\'\\\' plot importance is not a natural progression of events makes it an example of Character Focus.
2.) \\\"Mako and Korra\\\'s relationship has always been presented as a focus of the show;\\\"
But it was not preseneted as the plot the story sets up originally. What we learn from Episode 1 is that
A.) Korra needs to learn airbending to become a fully realized Avatar, which is the Avatar\\\'s Duty to become; and
B.) Republic City is unbalanced, and it\\\'s the Avatar\\\'s duty to bring balance to the world.
These are the two reasons why Korra is even in Republic City in the first place. Notice that \\\"finding a boyfriend\\\" is not listed as a reason and therefore not part of the overarching plot that the story is trying to resolve.
That Mako is shoehorned into the resolution of these two things that were protrayed as the \\\"Avatar\\\'s Duty\\\" is an example of Character Focus.
3.)\\\"There was never a requirement that Korra\\\'s fight against Amon be a \\\"solo round\\\";\\\"
Let me share with you an excerpt from the previous series, taken from the transcript of \\\"Day of Black Sun Part 2\\\"
Zuko: But I\\\'ve come to an even more important decision. [Closes eyes and momentarily pauses.] I\\\'m gonna join the Avatar and I\\\'m going to help him defeat you.
Ozai:[Smugly.] Really? Since you\\\'re a full-blown traitor now and you want me gone, why wait? I\\\'m powerless. You\\\'ve got your swords. Why don\\\'t you just do it now?
Zuko: Because I know my own destiny. Taking you down is the Avatar\\\'s destiny. [Puts his swords away.]
One of the key themes in both AtLA and LoK is the issue of the Avatar\\\'s destiny and the Avatar\\\'s Duty. The things specified as such are taken to mean things that have to do alone.
You can say that this was from another series, but Korra puts emphasis on her duty as the Avatar all the time (coming to Republic City, saving those people \\\"You\\\'re our Avatar too\\\", even in Season 2 with \\\"the south is spiritually unbalanced, yada yada yada\\\").
These are all things that are taken to mean that Korra will be handling the issue in a one on one combat. Note that this does not mean that her friends will stand around and do nothing, but that her friends will play important roles elsewhere in the story, such as how the GAang may not have helped fight Ozai (the Avatar\\\'s Duty), but the jobs they did were of equal importance in taking him down.
The requirement that Amon vs. Korra would be a 1-v-1 was set up since the first episode, and is a natural progression of events.
Interesting to note, you can argue that Korra needing friends and people to help her was an important story element at one point, but in that case she should have brought \\\'\\\'all\\\'\\\' of her friends to better hit the message of needing help, instead of just her boyfriend.
Mako being the Scrappy or terribly written actually has \\\'\\\'\\\'very little\\\'\\\'\\\' to do with the fact that if the story followed a natural progression of events, he wouldn\\\'t be \\\'\\\'\\\'the\\\'\\\'\\\' necessary component in the overarching plot that was presented as strictly Korra\\\'s, the Avatar\\\'s, Duty.
\\\'\\\'Nobody\\\'\\\', including the better written characters, should have that much Character Focus that they are the necessary instrument for the plot to be resolved except for Korra herself. That\\\'s the definition of a Main protagonist.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
@Rebochan, The word \
to:
@Rebochan, The word \\\"hate\\\" seems to get thrown around a lot here, and I think that\\\'s rather unkind. People who criticize a character don\\\'t necessarily hate the character.
I for one, don\\\'t \\\"hate\\\" Mako, I just don\\\'t care for him. The person who I linked to didn\\\'t \\\"hate\\\" Mako, and actually loved the series. People can critic without hating a character.
That said, rather than going through your list and responding point for point on what can be a very subjective matter, I\\\'m going to ask you to come up with a better example than Mako on the CreatorsPet Western Animation Page. Because most of what I see there is more than enough to put Mako on the list.
If you want to nuke the page as a list of bad examples, so be it, but they all have multiple things in common with Mako to the point where I can replace a few names and have things fit.
\\\"Taffy the babysitter from Rugrats was praised by all the characters in the show, but not so much love from the fans as she clearly existed so Amanda Bynes could star in another Nickelodeon show.\\\"
Mako the firebender from LoK was praised by all the characters in the show, but not so much love from the fans as he clearly existed as homage to late voice actor Mako Iwatsu.
Are you going to remove that one as well?
Now, @ Ironeye
I would disagree with your listed givens.
1.)\\\"Mako has always been one of the three characters with the most focus;\\\"
Mako was introduced at the same time as Bolin. Can you honestly tell me you saw from the beginning that he would get so much more focus than Bolin did?
Can you honestly tell me that the show presented him early on as an important element to the main goals of Korra learning airbending and defeating Amon?
Let\\\'s focus on airbending specifically, we are told that Korra needs to learn airbending, who is that is supposed to teach her? Mako? No, Tenzin.
Tenzin tries to instruct her on airbending movements, but she learns better from pro-bending. Is it Mako who shows her the importance of avoidance in combat? No, Bolin.
Tenzin instructs Korra to become more spiritual in an attempt to contact Aang. Does Mako help her do this in any way? No, she manages to contact Aang completely on her own when trapped in the metal box.
So tell me, how does Mako being the key to Korra unlocking her airbending seem like a natural progression of events?
Korra unlocking airbending on her own through connecting with her own spirituality would be a natural progression of events, since she did it before.
Korra unlocking airbending through Tenzin\\\'s help would be a natural progression of events since she\\\'s worked with Tenzin before.
Korra unlocking airbending through advice from Bolin would be a natural progression of events since she\\\'s recieved important advice from him before.
Korra unlocking airbending because Mako is in trouble is not a natural progression of events, since there were many times he and the people close to her were in trouble without her unlocking airbending (vs the mechas for one, where \\\'\\\'everybody\\\'\\\' she cares about is lying beaten on the floor to be electrocuted or worse).
The fact that Mako\\\'s \\\'\\\'\\\'last minute\\\'\\\'\\\' plot importance is not a natural progression of events makes it an example of Character Focus.
2.) \\\"Mako and Korra\\\'s relationship has always been presented as a focus of the show;\\\"
But it was not preseneted as the plot the story sets up originally. What we learn from Episode 1 is that
A.) Korra needs to learn airbending to become a fully realized Avatar, which is the Avatar\\\'s Duty to become; and
B.) Republic City is unbalanced, and it\\\'s the Avatar\\\'s duty to bring balance to the world.
These are the two reasons why Korra is even in Republic City in the first place. Notice that \\\"finding a boyfriend\\\" is not listed as a reason and therefore not part of the overarching plot that the story is trying to resolve.
That Mako is shoehorned into the resolution of these two things that were protrayed as the \\\"Avatar\\\'s Duty\\\" is an example of Character Focus.
3.)\\\"There was never a requirement that Korra\\\'s fight against Amon be a \\\"solo round\\\";\\\"
Let me share with you an excerpt from the previous series, taken from the transcript of \\\"Day of Black Sun Part 2\\\"
Zuko: But I\\\'ve come to an even more important decision. [Closes eyes and momentarily pauses.] I\\\'m gonna join the Avatar and I\\\'m going to help him defeat you.
Ozai:[Smugly.] Really? Since you\\\'re a full-blown traitor now and you want me gone, why wait? I\\\'m powerless. You\\\'ve got your swords. Why don\\\'t you just do it now?
Zuko: Because I know my own destiny. Taking you down is the Avatar\\\'s destiny. [Puts his swords away.]
One of the key themes in both AtLA and LoK is the issue of the Avatar\\\'s destiny and the Avatar\\\'s Duty. The things specified as such are taken to mean things that he has to do alone.
You can say that this was from another series, but Korra puts emphasis on her duty as the Avatar all the time (coming to Republic City, saving those people \\\"You\\\'re our Avatar too\\\", even in Season 2 with \\\"the south is spiritually unbalanced, yada yada yada\\\").
These are all things that are taken to mean that Korra will be handling the issue in a one on one combat. Note that this does not mean that her friends will stand around and do nothing, but that her friends will play important roles elsewhere in the story, such as how the GAang may not have helped fight Ozai (the Avatar\\\'s Duty), but the jobs they did were of equal importance in taking him down.
The requirement that Amon vs. Korra would be a 1-v-1 was set up since the first episode, and is a natural progression of events.
Interesting to note, you can argue that Korra needing friends and people to help her was an important story element at one point, but in that case she should have brought \\\'\\\'all\\\'\\\' of her friends to better hit the message of needing help, instead of just her boyfriend.
Mako being the Scrappy or terribly written actually has \\\'\\\'\\\'very little\\\'\\\'\\\' to do with the fact that if the story followed a natural progression of events, he wouldn\\\'t be \\\'\\\'\\\'the\\\'\\\'\\\' necessary component in the overarching plot that was presented as strictly Korra\\\'s, the Avatar\\\'s, Duty.
\\\'\\\'Nobody\\\'\\\', including the better written characters, should have that much Character Focus that they are the necessary instrument for the plot to be resolved except for Korra herself. That\\\'s the definition of a Main protagonist.
I for one, don\\\'t \\\"hate\\\" Mako, I just don\\\'t care for him. The person who I linked to didn\\\'t \\\"hate\\\" Mako, and actually loved the series. People can critic without hating a character.
That said, rather than going through your list and responding point for point on what can be a very subjective matter, I\\\'m going to ask you to come up with a better example than Mako on the CreatorsPet Western Animation Page. Because most of what I see there is more than enough to put Mako on the list.
If you want to nuke the page as a list of bad examples, so be it, but they all have multiple things in common with Mako to the point where I can replace a few names and have things fit.
\\\"Taffy the babysitter from Rugrats was praised by all the characters in the show, but not so much love from the fans as she clearly existed so Amanda Bynes could star in another Nickelodeon show.\\\"
Mako the firebender from LoK was praised by all the characters in the show, but not so much love from the fans as he clearly existed as homage to late voice actor Mako Iwatsu.
Are you going to remove that one as well?
Now, @ Ironeye
I would disagree with your listed givens.
1.)\\\"Mako has always been one of the three characters with the most focus;\\\"
Mako was introduced at the same time as Bolin. Can you honestly tell me you saw from the beginning that he would get so much more focus than Bolin did?
Can you honestly tell me that the show presented him early on as an important element to the main goals of Korra learning airbending and defeating Amon?
Let\\\'s focus on airbending specifically, we are told that Korra needs to learn airbending, who is that is supposed to teach her? Mako? No, Tenzin.
Tenzin tries to instruct her on airbending movements, but she learns better from pro-bending. Is it Mako who shows her the importance of avoidance in combat? No, Bolin.
Tenzin instructs Korra to become more spiritual in an attempt to contact Aang. Does Mako help her do this in any way? No, she manages to contact Aang completely on her own when trapped in the metal box.
So tell me, how does Mako being the key to Korra unlocking her airbending seem like a natural progression of events?
Korra unlocking airbending on her own through connecting with her own spirituality would be a natural progression of events, since she did it before.
Korra unlocking airbending through Tenzin\\\'s help would be a natural progression of events since she\\\'s worked with Tenzin before.
Korra unlocking airbending through advice from Bolin would be a natural progression of events since she\\\'s recieved important advice from him before.
Korra unlocking airbending because Mako is in trouble is not a natural progression of events, since there were many times he and the people close to her were in trouble without her unlocking airbending (vs the mechas for one, where \\\'\\\'everybody\\\'\\\' she cares about is lying beaten on the floor to be electrocuted or worse).
The fact that Mako\\\'s \\\'\\\'\\\'last minute\\\'\\\'\\\' plot importance is not a natural progression of events makes it an example of Character Focus.
2.) \\\"Mako and Korra\\\'s relationship has always been presented as a focus of the show;\\\"
But it was not preseneted as the plot the story sets up originally. What we learn from Episode 1 is that
A.) Korra needs to learn airbending to become a fully realized Avatar, which is the Avatar\\\'s Duty to become; and
B.) Republic City is unbalanced, and it\\\'s the Avatar\\\'s duty to bring balance to the world.
These are the two reasons why Korra is even in Republic City in the first place. Notice that \\\"finding a boyfriend\\\" is not listed as a reason and therefore not part of the overarching plot that the story is trying to resolve.
That Mako is shoehorned into the resolution of these two things that were protrayed as the \\\"Avatar\\\'s Duty\\\" is an example of Character Focus.
3.)\\\"There was never a requirement that Korra\\\'s fight against Amon be a \\\"solo round\\\";\\\"
Let me share with you an excerpt from the previous series, taken from the transcript of \\\"Day of Black Sun Part 2\\\"
Zuko: But I\\\'ve come to an even more important decision. [Closes eyes and momentarily pauses.] I\\\'m gonna join the Avatar and I\\\'m going to help him defeat you.
Ozai:[Smugly.] Really? Since you\\\'re a full-blown traitor now and you want me gone, why wait? I\\\'m powerless. You\\\'ve got your swords. Why don\\\'t you just do it now?
Zuko: Because I know my own destiny. Taking you down is the Avatar\\\'s destiny. [Puts his swords away.]
One of the key themes in both AtLA and LoK is the issue of the Avatar\\\'s destiny and the Avatar\\\'s Duty. The things specified as such are taken to mean things that he has to do alone.
You can say that this was from another series, but Korra puts emphasis on her duty as the Avatar all the time (coming to Republic City, saving those people \\\"You\\\'re our Avatar too\\\", even in Season 2 with \\\"the south is spiritually unbalanced, yada yada yada\\\").
These are all things that are taken to mean that Korra will be handling the issue in a one on one combat. Note that this does not mean that her friends will stand around and do nothing, but that her friends will play important roles elsewhere in the story, such as how the GAang may not have helped fight Ozai (the Avatar\\\'s Duty), but the jobs they did were of equal importance in taking him down.
The requirement that Amon vs. Korra would be a 1-v-1 was set up since the first episode, and is a natural progression of events.
Interesting to note, you can argue that Korra needing friends and people to help her was an important story element at one point, but in that case she should have brought \\\'\\\'all\\\'\\\' of her friends to better hit the message of needing help, instead of just her boyfriend.
Mako being the Scrappy or terribly written actually has \\\'\\\'\\\'very little\\\'\\\'\\\' to do with the fact that if the story followed a natural progression of events, he wouldn\\\'t be \\\'\\\'\\\'the\\\'\\\'\\\' necessary component in the overarching plot that was presented as strictly Korra\\\'s, the Avatar\\\'s, Duty.
\\\'\\\'Nobody\\\'\\\', including the better written characters, should have that much Character Focus that they are the necessary instrument for the plot to be resolved except for Korra herself. That\\\'s the definition of a Main protagonist.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
@Rebochan, The word \
to:
@Rebochan, The word \\\"hate\\\" seems to get thrown around a lot here, and I think that\\\'s rather unkind. People who criticize a character don\\\'t necessarily hate the character.
I for one, don\\\'t \\\"hate\\\" Mako, I just don\\\'t care for him. The person who I linked to didn\\\'t \\\"hate\\\" Mako, and actually loved the series. People can critic without hating a character.
That said, rather than going through your list and responding point for point on what can be a very subjective matter, I\\\'m going to ask you to come up with a better example than Mako on the CreatorsPet Western Animation Page. Because most of what I see there is more than enough to put Mako on the list.
If you want to nuke the page as a list of bad examples, so be it, but they all have multiple things in common with Mako to the point where I can replace a few names and have things fit.
\\\"Taffy the babysitter from Rugrats was praised by all the characters in the show, but not so much love from the fans as she clearly existed so Amanda Bynes could star in another Nickelodeon show.\\\"
Mako the firebender from LoK was praised by all the characters in the show, but not so much love from the fans as he clearly existed as homage to late voice actor Mako Iwatsu.
Are you going to remove that one as well?
Now, @ Ironeye
I would disagree with your listed givens.
1.)\\\"Mako has always been one of the three characters with the most focus;\\\"
Mako was introduced at the same time as Bolin. Can you honestly tell me you saw from the beginning that he would get so much more focus than Bolin did?
Can you honestly tell me that the show presented him early on as an important element to the main goals of Korra learning airbending and defeating Amon?
Let\\\'s focus on airbending specifically, we are told that Korra needs to learn airbending, who is that is supposed to teach her? Mako? No, Tenzin.
Tenzin tries to instruct her on airbending movements, but she learns better from pro-bending. Is it Mako who shows her the importance of avoidance in combat? No, Bolin.
Tenzin instructs Korra to become more spiritual in an attempt to contact Aang. Does Mako help her do this in any way? No, she manages to contact Aang completely on her own when trapped in the metal box.
So tell me, how does Mako being the key to Korra unlocking her airbending seem like a natural progression of events?
Korra unlocking airbending on her own through connecting with her own spirituality would be a natural progression of events, since she did it before.
Korra unlocking airbending through Tenzin\\\'s help would be a natural progression of events since she\\\'s worked with Tenzin before.
Korra unlocking airbending through advice from Bolin would be a natural progression of events since she\\\'s recieved important advice from him before.
Korra unlocking airbending because Mako is in trouble is not a natural progression of events, since there were many times he and the people close to her were in trouble without her unlocking airbending (vs the mechas for one, where \\\'\\\'everybody\\\'\\\' she cares about is lying beaten on the floor to be electrocuted or worse).
The fact that Mako\\\'s \\\'\\\'\\\'last minute\\\'\\\'\\\' plot importance is not a natural progression of events makes it an example of Character Focus.
2.) \\\"Mako and Korra\\\'s relationship has always been presented as a focus of the show;\\\"
But it was not preseneted as the plot the story sets up originally. What we learn from Episode 1 is that
A.) Korra needs to learn airbending to become a fully realized Avatar; and
B.) Republic City is unbalanced, and it\\\'s the Avatar\\\'s duty to bring balance to the world.
These are the two reasons why Korra is even in Republic City in the first place. Notice that \\\"finding a boyfriend\\\" is not listed as a reason and therefore not part of the overarching plot that the story is trying to resolve.
That Mako is shoehorned into the resolution of these two things that were protrayed as the \\\"Avatar\\\'s Duty\\\" is an example of Character Focus.
3.)\\\"There was never a requirement that Korra\\\'s fight against Amon be a \\\"solo round\\\";\\\"
Let me share with you an ecerpt from the previous series, taken from the transcript of \\\"Day of Black Sun Part 2\\\"
Zuko: But I\\\'ve come to an even more important decision. [Closes eyes and momentarily pauses.] I\\\'m gonna join the Avatar and I\\\'m going to help him defeat you.
Ozai:[Smugly.] Really? Since you\\\'re a full-blown traitor now and you want me gone, why wait? I\\\'m powerless. You\\\'ve got your swords. Why don\\\'t you just do it now?
Zuko: Because I know my own destiny. Taking you down is the Avatar\\\'s destiny. [Puts his swords away.]
One of the key themes in both AtLA and LoK is the issue of the Avatar\\\'s destiny and the Avatar\\\'s Duty. The things specified as such are taken to mean things that he has to do alone.
You can say that this was from another series, but Korra puts emphasis on her duty as the Avatar all the time (coming to Republic City, saving those people \\\"You\\\'re our Avatar too\\\", even in Season 2 with \\\"the south is spiritually unbalanced, yada yada yada\\\").
These are all things that are taken to mean that Korra will be handling the issue in a one on one combat. Note that this does not mean that her friends will stand around and do nothing, but that her friends will play important roles elsewhere in the story, such as how the GAang may not have helped fight Ozai (the Avatar\\\'s Duty), but the jobs they did were of equal importance in taking him down.
The requirement that Amon vs. Korra would be a 1-v-1 was set up since the first episode, and is a natural progression of events.
Interesting to note, you can argue that Korra needing friends and people to help her was an important story element at one point, but in that case she should have brought \\\'\\\'all\\\'\\\' of her friends to better hit the message of needing help, instead of just her boyfriend.
Mako being the Scrappy or terribly written actually has \\\'\\\'\\\'very little\\\'\\\'\\\' to do with the fact that if the story followed a natural progression of events, he wouldn\\\'t be \\\'\\\'\\\'the\\\'\\\'\\\' necessary component in the overarching plot that was presented as strictly Korra\\\'s, the Avatar\\\'s, Duty.
\\\'\\\'Nobody\\\'\\\', including the better written characters, should have that much Character Focus that they are the necessary instrument for the plot to be resolved except for Korra herself. That\\\'s the definition of a Main protagonist.
I for one, don\\\'t \\\"hate\\\" Mako, I just don\\\'t care for him. The person who I linked to didn\\\'t \\\"hate\\\" Mako, and actually loved the series. People can critic without hating a character.
That said, rather than going through your list and responding point for point on what can be a very subjective matter, I\\\'m going to ask you to come up with a better example than Mako on the CreatorsPet Western Animation Page. Because most of what I see there is more than enough to put Mako on the list.
If you want to nuke the page as a list of bad examples, so be it, but they all have multiple things in common with Mako to the point where I can replace a few names and have things fit.
\\\"Taffy the babysitter from Rugrats was praised by all the characters in the show, but not so much love from the fans as she clearly existed so Amanda Bynes could star in another Nickelodeon show.\\\"
Mako the firebender from LoK was praised by all the characters in the show, but not so much love from the fans as he clearly existed as homage to late voice actor Mako Iwatsu.
Are you going to remove that one as well?
Now, @ Ironeye
I would disagree with your listed givens.
1.)\\\"Mako has always been one of the three characters with the most focus;\\\"
Mako was introduced at the same time as Bolin. Can you honestly tell me you saw from the beginning that he would get so much more focus than Bolin did?
Can you honestly tell me that the show presented him early on as an important element to the main goals of Korra learning airbending and defeating Amon?
Let\\\'s focus on airbending specifically, we are told that Korra needs to learn airbending, who is that is supposed to teach her? Mako? No, Tenzin.
Tenzin tries to instruct her on airbending movements, but she learns better from pro-bending. Is it Mako who shows her the importance of avoidance in combat? No, Bolin.
Tenzin instructs Korra to become more spiritual in an attempt to contact Aang. Does Mako help her do this in any way? No, she manages to contact Aang completely on her own when trapped in the metal box.
So tell me, how does Mako being the key to Korra unlocking her airbending seem like a natural progression of events?
Korra unlocking airbending on her own through connecting with her own spirituality would be a natural progression of events, since she did it before.
Korra unlocking airbending through Tenzin\\\'s help would be a natural progression of events since she\\\'s worked with Tenzin before.
Korra unlocking airbending through advice from Bolin would be a natural progression of events since she\\\'s recieved important advice from him before.
Korra unlocking airbending because Mako is in trouble is not a natural progression of events, since there were many times he and the people close to her were in trouble without her unlocking airbending (vs the mechas for one, where \\\'\\\'everybody\\\'\\\' she cares about is lying beaten on the floor to be electrocuted or worse).
The fact that Mako\\\'s \\\'\\\'\\\'last minute\\\'\\\'\\\' plot importance is not a natural progression of events makes it an example of Character Focus.
2.) \\\"Mako and Korra\\\'s relationship has always been presented as a focus of the show;\\\"
But it was not preseneted as the plot the story sets up originally. What we learn from Episode 1 is that
A.) Korra needs to learn airbending to become a fully realized Avatar; and
B.) Republic City is unbalanced, and it\\\'s the Avatar\\\'s duty to bring balance to the world.
These are the two reasons why Korra is even in Republic City in the first place. Notice that \\\"finding a boyfriend\\\" is not listed as a reason and therefore not part of the overarching plot that the story is trying to resolve.
That Mako is shoehorned into the resolution of these two things that were protrayed as the \\\"Avatar\\\'s Duty\\\" is an example of Character Focus.
3.)\\\"There was never a requirement that Korra\\\'s fight against Amon be a \\\"solo round\\\";\\\"
Let me share with you an ecerpt from the previous series, taken from the transcript of \\\"Day of Black Sun Part 2\\\"
Zuko: But I\\\'ve come to an even more important decision. [Closes eyes and momentarily pauses.] I\\\'m gonna join the Avatar and I\\\'m going to help him defeat you.
Ozai:[Smugly.] Really? Since you\\\'re a full-blown traitor now and you want me gone, why wait? I\\\'m powerless. You\\\'ve got your swords. Why don\\\'t you just do it now?
Zuko: Because I know my own destiny. Taking you down is the Avatar\\\'s destiny. [Puts his swords away.]
One of the key themes in both AtLA and LoK is the issue of the Avatar\\\'s destiny and the Avatar\\\'s Duty. The things specified as such are taken to mean things that he has to do alone.
You can say that this was from another series, but Korra puts emphasis on her duty as the Avatar all the time (coming to Republic City, saving those people \\\"You\\\'re our Avatar too\\\", even in Season 2 with \\\"the south is spiritually unbalanced, yada yada yada\\\").
These are all things that are taken to mean that Korra will be handling the issue in a one on one combat. Note that this does not mean that her friends will stand around and do nothing, but that her friends will play important roles elsewhere in the story, such as how the GAang may not have helped fight Ozai (the Avatar\\\'s Duty), but the jobs they did were of equal importance in taking him down.
The requirement that Amon vs. Korra would be a 1-v-1 was set up since the first episode, and is a natural progression of events.
Interesting to note, you can argue that Korra needing friends and people to help her was an important story element at one point, but in that case she should have brought \\\'\\\'all\\\'\\\' of her friends to better hit the message of needing help, instead of just her boyfriend.
Mako being the Scrappy or terribly written actually has \\\'\\\'\\\'very little\\\'\\\'\\\' to do with the fact that if the story followed a natural progression of events, he wouldn\\\'t be \\\'\\\'\\\'the\\\'\\\'\\\' necessary component in the overarching plot that was presented as strictly Korra\\\'s, the Avatar\\\'s, Duty.
\\\'\\\'Nobody\\\'\\\', including the better written characters, should have that much Character Focus that they are the necessary instrument for the plot to be resolved except for Korra herself. That\\\'s the definition of a Main protagonist.
