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IsaacsLaughing Since: Feb, 2015
27th Jan, 2016 09:07:01 AM

Took me a while. The only difference I can see, and it's a disputable one, is consent. Seems like the villain doesn't consent to Brainwashing for the Greater Good and, if the heroes ask, does to Heel–Face Brainwashing. It's a mighty big if, though.

Scorpion451 (Edited uphill both ways)
27th Jan, 2016 09:27:05 AM

I think what's going on with Brainwashing for the Greater Good is that the author got overly specific and elaborate with an Example As Thesis. I'm getting the feeling that it was intended to be a Broken Fantastic Aesop "good" counterpart to The Evils of Free Will: "Its okay to brainwash people if the good guys do it!"

IsaacsLaughing Since: Feb, 2015
27th Jan, 2016 09:45:31 AM

^ Except Heel–Face Brainwashing cites the same moral issue of "when is brainwashing justified":

"In-universe, the Godzilla Threshold can justify almost anything, but on a meta level, when this happens, it means that either the morality is Black and Grey Morality (or Grey and Gray Morality), or there is serious Values Dissonance going on, or maybe just thoughtless Moral Dissonance."

Edited by IsaacsLaughing
Scorpion451 (Edited uphill both ways)
27th Jan, 2016 10:12:56 AM

^ therein lies the problem. The two seem to have gotten their definitions tangled, possibly from their creation. Heel–Face Brainwashing is unambiguously about turning bad guys into good guys, however, just with a little extra discussion that should probably be flagged as Brainwashing for the Greater Good. Example As Thesis aside, the focus of BftGG is on the What the Hell, Hero? aspect, and does actively include more extreme types of brainwashing, like mass Getting Smilies Painted on Your Soul.

Edited by Scorpion451
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