Fire Emblem

Doujins are associated with porn because well, what do you think these people are interested in more often than not?

Your preferences are not everyone else's preferences.

The important thing here is that doujinshi has a very loose relationship with copyright law. An awful lot of doujinshi is fanfiction, based on their favorite series. And, like fanfiction, sometimes people just want their favorite characters to have sex with each other.

edited 6th May '15 4:09:17 PM by Clarste

I'd also like to point out that a "doujin" is, as far as I can tell, what you call a group of people who produce doujinshi. The two words are not interchangeable.

For example, TYPE-MOON was a doujin group when it was first founded and, as such, Kara No Kyoukai, Tsukihime, and Fate/stay night were all doujinshi. I do not think that is the case anymore, however.

But do keep it mind that a doujinshi doesn't have to be a fan work. It usually is but it doesn't have to be.

edited 6th May '15 4:09:59 PM by Zelenal

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Eh, I would call any game that doesn't have a publisher "indie."

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

I said "an awful lot of".

Also, I think doujin is more like an adjective. You don't say "ZUN is a doujin" because that sounds silly.

edited 6th May '15 4:12:06 PM by Clarste

Fanfiction.

But let's not pretend fanfiction isn't 40% porn. Most of the fan comics you'll see outside of Japan is the pornographic stuff, which doesn't help.

The term would be doujinka, I'm pretty sure.

Also fwiw, Recettear is a doujin game.

edited 6th May '15 4:14:18 PM by Watashiwa

Doujinka, doujin game, doujin circle. Yeah, it's an adjective. Doujin culture.

A number of doujin games have been coming out on Steam recently. I remember this weird doll SRPG one.

Well, most doujinwhatever are porn.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

Except it isn't. It's a noun. You may use it as an adjective in English but the word is a noun in Japanese.

Most of a lot of things are porn.

edited 6th May '15 4:26:35 PM by Zelenal

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But those aren't really the ones people care about, at least over here. It's hard to break it big when your best genre is "porn parody of existing work".

Yes, because a dictionary is the perfect way to understand niche culture jargon. Great job. You'll note that most of those definitions don't have anything to do with this topic. They call their groups "circles" because they evolved out of college clubs. It's used as an adjective in Japanese all the time. Of course, nouns can also be used as adjectives (or verbs) because language.

edited 6th May '15 4:31:46 PM by Clarste

English has a tendency to turn words of one class into another class without changing the word itself. Making things more confusing, the Japanese word doujin can be used as either a noun, or a sort of nominal adjective. It would take a while to explain.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.

Yes, because sarcasm is a great way to present a counterpoint. Try to make yourself feel smart and me feel stupid. Just because it's jargon doesn't mean the dictionary entry is wrong.

From all of my work with the Japanese language, I have noticed that they use words which are listed as nouns in positions that mark them as adjectives in English. This whole mess is due to people trying to apply the rules and standards of one language onto another.

The word "doujin" is an noun in Japanese. However, when used in English, it is an adjective. Is that so hard to understand?

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Currently on Paralogue 2, coming from Chapter 7.

I guess I can actually relax and have fun now

I like a good challenge, but seriously those first few chapters are just plain un-fun on Lunatic

Chapter 2 was probably the worst, almost made me want to give up altogether

Current Team (hope I'm not falling behind):

• Chrom (LV 14 Lord)
  • HP 31/Str 17/Mag 2/Skill 13/Spd 14/Lck 13/Def 13/Res 3/Swd B
• Robin (LV 20 Tactician)
  • HP 43/Str 12/Mag 17/Skill 14/Spd 15/Lck 12/Def 15/Res 13/Swd C/Tome A
• Virion (LV 11 Archer)
  • HP 28/Str 12/Mag 4/Skill 15/Spd 12/Lck/9/Def 8/Res 4/Bow B
• Sumia (LV 7 Pegasus Knight)
  • HP 23/Str 9/Mag 5/Skill 15/Spd 16/Lck 12/Def 7/Res 9/Lnc C
• Lissa (LV 13 Cleric)
  • HP 25/Str 3/Mag 6/Skill 10/Spd 10/Lck 15/Def 6/Res 10/Staff B
• Frederick (LV 4 Great Knight)
  • HP 32/Str 14/Mag 2/Skill 13/Spd 12/Lck 8/Def 15/Res 4/Swd C/Lnc A/Axe D
• Kellam (LV 6 Knight)
  • HP 22/Str 10/Mag 1/Skill 8/Spd 6/Lck 3/Def 13/Res 2/Lnc C
• Gaius (LV 6 Thief)
  • HP 23/Str 8/Mag 0/Skill 14/Spd 16/Lck 7/Def 5/Res 2/Swd D
• Panne (LV 6 Taguel)
  • HP 28/Str 8/Mag 1/Skill 9/Spd 10/Lck 8/Def 7/Res 3
• Cordelia (LV 7 Pegasus Knight)
  • HP 25/Str 9/Mag 3/Skill 13/Spd 12/Lck 9/Def 8/Res 8/Lnc C

edited 6th May '15 5:12:06 PM by Aflac

Enjoyment and Excitement!

im really really really rusty on japanese but dont they have adjectival nouns?

nouns that function as adjectives when used in conjuction with the particle ~の

also something about whether the の is before or after the adjective changing its exact meaning

It is unclear to me why you felt the need to link a dictionary definition of the word jargon. The point is just that dictionaries are incomplete and cannot give you the full context of the word.

If it's a noun that's sometimes used as an adjective and never as a noun (in this context), then it's an... adjective-like noun. But, first of all, please provide an example of anyone, ever, using the word "doujin" on it's own to refer to a creator. It can be in Japanese, because I can read Japanese and I'm familiar with people talking to each other about doujin in Japanese.

Hey, for all I know I'm wrong. But I think your obsession with grammar is just kind of missing the point about how the word is used. ZUN is not a doujin. Type-Moon was not a doujin. From my perspective you were flat-out wrong about the usage of the word and then suddenly changed the topic when I pointed that out. I hope that makes you feel smart.

edited 6th May '15 5:22:12 PM by Clarste

の can nominalize verbs and adjectives but, even after looking up the word "nominalize", I don't really know what that means.

Two nouns can be used where one describes another without changing what the first word is. For examples, I give you combat ability, power level, intelligence quota, fire hydrant, and so on. None of the words in that list are adjectives despite their relationship. The same thing is clearly going on with the word "doujin."

I don't even know how the bloody hell we got on this. Last thing I recall is making sure there was no misunderstanding as to the definition of "doujinshi" and that "dounjin" and "doujinshi" were not interchangeable.

edited 6th May '15 5:40:29 PM by Zelenal

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Turn it into a noun.

So how about that Kaga game? Sure am hyped to see where that goes.

Don't PM me. We don't like being PMed.

I'll keep my eye on it.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!

You said that "doujin" referred to the creators themselves, which is flat-out wrong. You do not understand how this term is used in Japanese, so I corrected you, and then you got all defensive about how you're technically right despite being wrong in every way that matters.

Yes, nouns can be used as adjectives, and the way that's relevant here is that "doujin" is used as an adjective all the time. Just... go look at the Japanese wikipedia page. What do you see? 同人サークル, 同人誌, 同人ソフト, 同人ゲーム, 同人アニメ. It's rarely used as a noun in this context, which is why I felt your dictionary link didn't help much. Because we are talking about a thing here, not an abstract word floating in the void.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go translate a doujin game.

edited 6th May '15 5:50:31 PM by Clarste

Look at my first sentence.

Now look at my second.

The first sentence could have been worded better, yes, but my point always was that "doujin" was used to refer to creators (thus how I said "doujin group" in my second sentence) while "doujinshi" is used to refer works sometimes made by such groups. Also, when six or seven different dictionaries list a word as a noun then it. Is. A. Noun.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go translate a song.

edited 6th May '15 5:59:48 PM by Zelenal

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!

Jeeze. I just wanted to know why people so often use "doujin" to mean porn. I didn't think it'd turn into a stupid grammar debate.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

Stupid semantics debates are this site's lifeblood.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

And I just wanted to make sure people didn't get their terms mixed up or misunderstand the definitions of the words. I didn't expect to be caught up yet again in a stupid argument where someone thinks that the dictionary is wrong and that by listing it as a source, I am unaware of how it is used.

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You are the only person in this thread who cares when people misuse terms.

it's an internet forum, not an academic paper. If you understood what the person was trying to say, that's all that matters.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."