Gun Porn!

Why would you do that?

Tom: Except shot placement is king over 2mm of maybe. Disciplined and well trained shooters will almost always trump someone relying on maybe. That and the FBI noted in recent test the latest 9mm offerings outperform premium .45 ACP offerings and apparently even outperform most of the .40 offerings as well. Add in also according to the tests their shooters recoil is more easily handled, more accuracy, faster reacquisition, faster shot strings, and lower wear and tear on the weapons. You might be waiting a good long while for Miami shootout part 2. Short of fighting body armor there is not much that could go wrong.

edited 27th Jul '15 5:07:24 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Because science or something. I don't know why you'd make a err...semi-rifleless....err....rifle. (Better term please?)

A cut down rifle. That is way too cut down. I see no purpose in doing that other then someone could.

edited 27th Jul '15 5:09:23 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Texas Study: Lead Shot Vs Steel Shot. No Effective Difference.

Mind you this is bird hunting but I've noticed no real difference between rifle rounds in steel core and lead core too. At least in ballistics.

Hey who here knows things about the OTs-33? It's a machine pistol designed by KBP to replace the Stechkin.

I've seen it in a few games and wanna know stuff about it. Mostly because it's got this cool square look going on.

It was a Russian Glock-18 that never caught on, being lightweight and a full auto handgun aren't things that go hand to hand together without problems.

I have to admit it does look good but it falls under the same problems machine pistols run into, they are completely unneeded and you'd be better off with a dedicated SMG to control the recoil and provide enough accuracy under automatic fire.

But games aside, the L.U.R.K. mod for Stalker So C has one on the military checkpoint at the beginning of the game, it is good enough to carry you over most of the game and at end game if you hoard AP ammo.

But it looks so cool and square.

And all of Russia's new submachine guns and machine pistols always sorta fall flat. Not because they're bad but because the AKS-74u is a thing that exists and is very much beloved.

Why bother issuing a subgun when the AKS-74U is the same size but fires rifle caliber ammo? It's even compatible with a PBS-4 suppressor and subsonic ammo. (AKS-74UB)

Hell there's also the AS Val compact assault rifle firing a Hell of a better round than pistol cartridges for short range use while retaining full stealth capabilities.

Yeah the FSB and the RGF equivalents of MP's might find use for the PP90M1, PP-19-2 Bizon, OTS-02 Kiparis or the PP-2000 subguns because of lower collateral. (But then again given the Russians, collateral damage is less of a concern than in the West...)

The U is a horrible weapon though. It has shit for accuracy and tends to overheat like crazy. Their SMG designs are not bad at all.

At least use the Val firing the 9x39 round.

edited 28th Jul '15 4:00:31 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Yeah but all the vehicle crews and special forces and usual people who would SMGs love the 74u because of the stopping power.

And it's not that bad when it comes to overheating and accuracy. It's extremely good for what it does. Don't think of it as a carbine like the M4 or something. It's treated more like a submachine gun.

The PP-19 is a damn fine weapon and gives stuff like the P90 a serious run for it's money but it just can't stand up to having something of similar size fire a full sized rifle round. And now that those 60 round casket magazines are in proper use there's even less reason to use it.

edited 28th Jul '15 4:04:14 PM by LeGarcon

It's better in close quarters and tight spaces than a standard M4 carbine is. It's a weapon designed to never need to fire further than 200 meters at best. Not for line infantry use.

A rifle cartridge from a seriously shortened barrel...do either of you not see the issue there? Add in the increased muzzle blast and flash, well known over heating problems such as it gets so hot heat transfers through the fore grip, and muzzle movement on firing so severe it even affects short controlled bursts. You get better performance and fewer issues off of any of their SMG platforms or even their limited use OTs-14 Groza platform. The Russians can and have done better in compact fire arms design.

Garcon: Think about this. It is firing an assault rifle cartridge the P90 is firing a pistol cartridge and it is only almost as good? One of these is an SMG design firing comparatively lighter round out of a less powerful cartridge.

edited 28th Jul '15 4:43:47 PM by TuefelHundenIV

But not more stopping power. It might be a big source of it's flaws but there's just no getting around that level of compact firepower.

It's not a perfect weapon by any means but it still is very good at it's role and everyone who uses it loves it.

Yeah not seeing any reports of love anywhere other then they get what they get.

Considering SOCOM and various other NATO outfits run really short barrels all the way down to 10.5 inches such as the G-36C or the CQBR M4A1, whatever issue occurs apparently doesn't register anywhere.

I know accuracy and muzzle velocity can go to shite. Do you really think either the designers or users care when they aren't even trying to shoot 500 yards?

There's a reason the PP-19 and family isn't widespread and it's because special forces and vehicle crews like their AKS-74u.

Again, it's not a carbine. It's not trying to compete with the M4 or G36C or any of that nonsense. It is for all intents and purposes a PDW.

edited 28th Jul '15 4:48:02 PM by LeGarcon

Speaking of the O Ts-14 Groza, anybody else think it's one of the coolest looking bullpup rifles? A wood and metal bullpup is a real rarity, and the integrated foregrip/barrel looks really cool too.

edited 28th Jul '15 4:51:43 PM by Bat178

I dunno about the integrated barrel/grip thing.

I'd be afraid of accidentally pulling back too hard and bending it or something.

edited 28th Jul '15 4:50:40 PM by LeGarcon

With the Groza I'm concerned about shooting fingers because barrel is so small. I'm not Ivan ya know.

A shame it is so rare in video games. It was in the STALKER games, where it was pretty much a Infinity +1 Sword in Shadow of Chernobyl, and while nerfed in the other games, was still one of the best assault rifles when upgraded. They added both the 9x39 version (As a SMG, annoyingly enough. Hate when games make that mistake) and 7.62x39 version into Battlefield 4 in a recent patch. While the 9x39 version is underpowered in that game, the 7.62x39 version is a beast in close range.

You see, all you need is to hold it like peestol so you never shoot the inaccurate over fear of shooting fingers.

Jokes aside, I don't see how the U would provide and advantage over a carbine or an SMG unless you're trying to shoot people inside sewers and dirt tunnels.

An SMG like the MP 7 or P90 could do the same thing without the attached issues, even the PDW-R didn't go much further because no one saw much point in it.

edited 28th Jul '15 5:53:58 PM by AngelusNox

That's pretty much its intended role. Tight quarters areas where long range fighting is either negligible or otherwise not a concern. Like that of vehicle crews defending themselves up close or Spetsnaz guys operating room to room.

It's 700 rpm of 5.45x39mm headed for you at 720 m/s.

By the way, the correct term for that last weapon is Magpul PDR. PDW-R is a silly idiot name DICE made for BF 3.

edited 28th Jul '15 6:08:34 PM by MajorTom

It is actually meant to be a carbine and is not issued just to rear echelon types. You still want accuracy out of your carbines and it would be nice to not have the user burn their fingers when they have to go rock and roll on their weapon. They can definitely do better especially with their long running ability to produce bull pup designs and their new efforts in SMG's should be rather solid.

Here look at the PP-2000 in use by internal units. You get compact firepower and the Russians make a family of AP 9mm rounds to give it punch like the P-90 has but still able to use the 9x19mm ammo. They even have a 9mm SMG platform built off of the AK-74 around 2008. There is also the 9A-91 used by the Russian Police. All of them offer light weight, compact frames, and hit out to 200m. All of their 9mm be it x18 or x39 pack AP ammo that can defeat modern soft body armor.

I believe that it was more a case of Writing Around Trademarks like with the ACR (referred to as the ACW-R in the game).

I wonder if anyone could be able to get the AKS-74u, M4 CQBR, Honey Badger and maybe a PDR together for a comparison test.

I believe that their MP-443 can use the same AP 9x19 as the PP-2000.

edited 28th Jul '15 6:44:04 PM by Krieger22

^ The first three are easy. The hard part is the PDR.

edited 28th Jul '15 6:42:53 PM by MajorTom