Young Justice

June 2012. Around the time season 2 was airing.

Yes, Miguel Ferrer passing was pretty sad. He was good supporting character in Twin Peaks and voiced many DC characters throughout his career (including Martian Manhunter in Justice League A New Frontier).

I wonder how can they continue the show without hin as his Vandal Savage really does give off the pressence of being the oldest living villain from how casual he carry out his schemes to him mocking the heroes in his gruff voice. Can't replace a guy like that. Same could by said for his take on Deathstroke even though HE is the Other Danza.

Yeah Connor was. He still didn't ask to be born that way and he was trying to be a hero. That matters and clark can't really ignore that. So yeah it comes off as heartless.

And the issue isn't that they don't think they're doing well. It's just that it's usually a delusion and that they really don't care even if they THINK they do.

Take Arcturus Mengsk from Starcraft. He genuinely believes that he's humanity's savior and that they need him.....yet he also drops nukes on his own capital to slow Kerrigan when she comes for his head, is entirely willing to murder his own son for aiding Kerrigan, has four teenagers put to death even though they lack the resources and money to be a threat, and repeats the same war crime that drove him to rebel on a larger scale before abandoning a loyal lieutenant when she calls him out on it (which results in said lieutenant getting infested and becoming a mass murderer).

Basically it's clear that while Mengsk may believe his own garbage, that he's basically kidding himself and is ultimately just a petty tyrant who would let the universe burn if he can't be in charge.

Or General Fillit from Valerian. He tries to justify his actions (causing the near total genocide of a primitive species, murdering people in order to cover up his crime, and then trying to exterminate the survivors) as being for the good of humanity (if the truth gets out they may loose their standing, we may have to pay reparations) but it's clear that it's mostly just self serving lies that he tells himself to feel better.

Maybe the light genuinely thinks they're helping humanity but at the end of the day most people who commit crimes DON'T have good intentions.

You realize Clark wasn't stopping Connor from being a hero, right? Hell, he allowed Connor to be trained by Black Canary, on a team with other sidekicks and let him stay at the League's former base of operations. Nothing Clark did actually impeded Connor's heroics.

If anything, Superman's treatment of Connor in the show is better than how he treats him in the comics. Leaving Connor under the JL's supervision is better than leaving responsibility for meeting his basic physical needs in the hands of a get-rich-quick scheming con man of a publicity agent

He didn't ignore it. He just wanted nothing to do with him which he is well within his right to decide. Connor isn't a kid Clark sired due to a one night stand and refused to play child support for. He owes nothing to a clone that was created with neither his knowledge nor his consent.

And again, how did we end up talking about Connor.

Which means there's still a handful of people that do. So what exactly is your problem here? It isn't like the type of villains you like are underrepresented. Leave the Light for people who enjoy them as they are. Not every villain needs to be written the same way.

edited 1st Sep '17 1:56:58 AM by windleopard

@Conner: Superman's reaction to Conner was basically played out like a man suddenly discovering he had a long-lost bastard child. I get what they were going for, but it can still rub some people the wrong way.

I mean, it's not so much a bastard child as it is a Child by Rape.

The problem with Superman's relationship towards Conner is that it wasn't focused on. I get why the Kryptonian acted the way he did, he is very protective of his genes & most likely encountered Bizarro giving him reasons to distaste clones making his reaction justified.

The problem is that it wasn't focused upon. Nothing was done aside from giving Conner a good job smile at the end of season 1 & now their ok buddies when season 2 starts. They missed out on a lot of heartwarming developments. Them resolving all their issues offscreen is rather lame.

Also I'm pretty sure most of the Light don't care about helping the world. Their just in it for power & to actually rule as Gods. They have no reason to be putting on airs of helping the world.

edited 1st Sep '17 6:08:08 AM by slimcoder

I always felt like Clark was definitely in the wrong, but it was also completely understandable.

Kind of a shame we didn't get an episode focusing on the resolution really.

Superman hadn't encountered Bizarro. In fact, the show's take on Match ends up becoming Bizarro after the five year time-skip. In the comic tie-in, he is shown as having devolved further and become more deformed and Bizarro-like.

Okay let's replace Superman in this scenario with, say, Wonder Woman. Would anyone be calling her heartless for not wanting anything to do with a clone created without her will or consent?

Huh wow. I would have liked to see that on the show though.

Isn't the New 52 version of Donna Troy a clone of her? How'd she react there?

Speaking of villains, I'd really like the for the Secret Six to appear. The group containing Bane, Scandal Savage, Ragdoll, Deadshot, Catman & Jeannette. There a pretty awesome group, full of charismatic anti-heroes & possess one of the best portrayals of Bane ever.

Idk we already had Injustice League plus the Light are still around.

Diana tried to redeem her. Rebirth however has Diana treating Donna with fear. My point is, how would people feel if Diana treated Donna as Clark treated Connor.

If the next season has more focus on Tim Drake and his generation, I want to see Ulysses Hadrian Armstrong. I've wanted to see that kid/guy in an adaptation for ages.

It's something I kind of want in general, really. Something that I love about some of DC's sidekick characters is the way they sometimes give them their own sub-mythoses, which you don't see a lot of in adaptations because those character don't typically get that much limelight - or if they do, there's not enough space to introduce so much about them. Usually, they just mash them into the main character's mythos instead), but which this show is in a prime position to do that, due to the way they introduce all those things altogether as an ensemble series anyway.

It's especially true for the Batfamily, as basically everyone in the Batfamily has their own supporting cast, their own personal Rogues Gallery, etc. We've seen some of Dick Grayson's personal group already (not many, but we did get Blockbuster in Season 1), for instance.

edited 16th Jan '18 10:20:00 PM by KnownUnknown

What never sat right with me was the one-two punch that Superman was the 'bad dad' while at the same time Bruce was portrayed as Father of the Year. In any other continuity, he basically chased off his first son, and is on his, um, 5th replacement?

And making Supes look bad was for what exactly? The entire sub plot was contained in one season and resolved over a time skip? I mean, it could have gone somewhere if Lex had made his move earlier, tried to win over Conner by being a father figure without being obviously up to something from the get go. Wasted opportunity there.

edited 17th Jan '18 3:56:06 PM by CitizenH

I don't think we're meant to see Superman as "bad" or unsympathetic, per se... I mean, I think we're meant to see him as being wrong but still I can kind of see where he's coming from. I'd be feeling very awkward and conflicted if I discovered I was the parent of a child I never consented to having and suddenly expected to act as that child's father.

Incidentally, when is the new season due? It's not been covertly canned, I hope?

Neither producers have said that the show was suddenly canceled, so I'm sure it's still going.

As for season 3's actual premiere, this is the best answer I could find.

If by “any other continuity” you mean “The New Batman Adventures only” then yeah, I guess so.

Batman is generally portrayed as being a pretty good guardian and father figure, the whole “conscripting kids into a war on crime” bit aside given that every superhero with sidekicks does that. Dick's split from him is, iirc, portrayed as a point where he had to leave the nest, so to speak, where a specific point of tension triggered what was going to happen eventually.

Young Justice exaggerates it a bit (like him playing hoops with Dick to cheer him up) but its still closer to his comics relationship to his “sons” than the DCAU - for all its successes - was. And I’ve always felt the DCAU regretted how strained it wrote his relationship to Dick and Tim in The New Batman Adventures, given that basically every subsequent installment up to JLU rewrote his personality and his relationships with other people to veer away from his TNBA in increasingly unsubtle ways.

edited 18th Jan '18 11:54:46 AM by KnownUnknown

Clark is only a bad dad if you're unable to empathise with the feelings of violation one would feel about a clone created without your knowledge or consent.

I agree, but I also feel this is an issue that they should resolve onscreen rather than just make it something for Conner to angst about. It's magnified because they keep drawing attention to it and Superman having so little screen time.

Well by season 2 it had been resolved. Superman and Superboy worked well in tandem (with Supes calling Connor "little brother", if I remember correctly) and Superboy showed interesting insight into Superman's thoughts when he reflected that Supes would not be all right after failing to save the aliens when their base exploded.

"Onscreen."

There's also the fact that Superman doesn't seem to be comfortable with the prospect of being a father. We see how hostile he gets when Bruce tries to put his definition of the relationship between Clark and Conner. Even Conner doesn't define it as "father/son" until M'gann refers to it as such in the therapy scene with Hugo Strange.

A lot of people joked about Superman still keeping Conner distant by being his "brother", but it just seemed like a natural development of his discomfort of Conner being pushed often as his "son".

There's a scene in the tie-in comic that has Superman try to become closer to Conner right before the S1 finale as Clark Kent, with Conner being oblivious to his disguise. It makes the scene of Clark telling Conner his real name a little funnier.

Though I agree, that should've been in the main show. There's a handful of scenes in the tie-in comic that should've been in the show as well, but at the same time, I can't really think of where to place them.

I kind of wish that the Light was more of a utopia justifies the means mindset instead of we/humanity need to conquer the universe mindset.

edited 20th Jan '18 10:28:37 AM by warrior93

One doesn't necessarily preclude the other.