Shin Megami Tensei Series

Devil Survivor did uave a prophecy that literally set in motion the stories events because the Founder learned about a future trial for humanity.

SMTI retroactively has a similar situation thanks to Raidou, because as long as YHVH wants a future to happen, the timeline will follow that path. Only pwotagoneits are able to disrupt His plans. Even then it depends on the person in question. Makes Akarana Corridor stopping at SMTII in the timeline make a ton of sense if it's connected to YHVH.

edited 21st Sep '17 7:30:13 PM by OmegaRadiance

So, is YHWH the strongest thing in SMT-verse? I'm playing P5 and it randomly crossed my mind how Metatron is weaker than Lucifer in P4 as a Judgment Persona. Naturally Personas aren't the actual Demons but even still, Metatron is supposed to be the equivalent of Beez....Beazelbub? That fly guy. So Lucifer would be above Metatron.

But is he actually as strong as YHWH? What said, and also the comments about Chaos not "throwing the first punch" makes it seem like Law is the natural way of things/dominant power/ideology/whatever.

edited 21st Sep '17 7:48:58 PM by Nikkolas

YHVH is definitely stronger than Lucifer. In MTII, He kills Lucifer in one hit should you side with Him in their conflict, and even in Nocturne, probably Lucifer's strongest showing, he felt he needed the Demi-Fiend to stand a chance.

MTII is weird because immediately upon figting him YHVH is a chump compared to Satan.

And YHVH powerlevel has varied.

Demi-Fiend was prophesized. If you want a good chance at victory go for ones best options instead of just betting on it by mindless force.

edited 21st Sep '17 7:55:48 PM by OmegaRadiance

Huh so Kali is Kali MA in DSJ.

Liberation Gameplay

SEG As stream also shows 3D Arianhod in the 2:45-2:50 hour mark.

edited 22nd Sep '17 12:14:11 AM by OmegaRadiance

Kali is a Mother? Interesting!

Also, Knohohoho, where I can find the De Su manga on internet?, I cant get a physical copy because I live in Latinoamerica.

Also, yeah, a game with Chaos throwing the first punch would be interesting. Albeit Technically, Law had been restraining itself for generations until doing the stuff.

That is the weird thing about Law, no one likes it yet is the main force with the upper hand in a series where belief=power.

I have a thought about the Dark Looking angels like Mastema and Satan, if the franchise decided make a Law Kabbalistic ending, then Law would be the actual fusion of Light and Dark, fussion of opossites.

In a mythologic-philosophic sense, Balance is practically where you want it to be. I mean, even the classic Lucifer designs are mean to call for a duality of opposites combined. Same with some Satanic/luciferian religions, Abrahamic faiths have christian unitarianism and Kabbalah, specially the latter.

Thanks

edited 22nd Sep '17 10:42:19 AM by KazuyaProta

You can buy the whole thing digitally on Comixology.

So if Kali is Kali Ma in Redux and a new Mother, I wonder if we'll get any Mothers that are a tad more sympathetic towards humanity without the whole "embrace your inner Internet asshole before we call you our children" sctick.

That would be lame honestly, SJ point was who both Law and Chaos are alien and strange to human life as we know it, trying to sanitize the Mothers would be annoying.

And please, for all non Neutral Gods, no more Hidden Golden Neutral-by-other-name paths.

edited 22nd Sep '17 10:44:45 AM by KazuyaProta

Nah, I disagree. The neutral paths are awesome. Punch the gods in the face, subjugate them, and destroy all those who refuse to move out of their way. If Law and Chaos won't behave, then Neutral will have to step in and make them.

I'm all for it.

edited 22nd Sep '17 10:50:25 AM by VeryMelon

You know what would be a funny scene? If you let the Demiurge fuse with "Metatron," then he comes back as YHVH to reclaim what he thinks is rightfully his...and then the Mothers promptly tear him apart again, then force his "main piece" to go sit in the corner as time-out.

Hell hath no fury like a pissed off mother.

I know the chance of this happening are second to none but if there is something that I want to see in the upcoming Strange Journey remake is that...

I want Hoshigami to show up.

edited 22nd Sep '17 10:54:44 AM by dood9780

I dont think who she had a chance besides having some references, it would be interesting see some reactions to her.

My reason to dislike Neutral is who is basically what is holding the series back, it could give for some more interesting stuff rather than everything who isnt secular humanism horizontally individualist is bad, Atlus clearly knows its mythos, but the are just showing the worst of everything who they dont like at 100%.

Is just annoying, Neutral is incredibly boring when you away take the whole Punch all gods in the face thing, is just a vague middle of the road path, who somehow is also being a rebeld because you finded the path for yourself (because obviously, no one had imagined for a middle-on-the-way approach of morality besides the greatest minds of history -insert a vague line about moderation for a historical figure-)

edited 22nd Sep '17 11:04:02 AM by KazuyaProta

I don't think Neutral's holding the series back at all. It's almost always the best part of every Shin Megami Tensei game I've played, especially in the "main series" games.

• Strange Journey Neutral path is great because I love my crew members so much. I can complete my mission without turning my crew into pod people or crazies.
• Shin Megami Tensei IV Neutral path is great because not only do I get to restore Masakado and bring light to Tokyo again, but I also get to stomp Lucifer and Merkabah in the face.
• Apocalypse Neutral paths let you kill YHVH. So good.

So yeah, I think the Neutral paths are the best parts of those games. Not boring at all.

edited 22nd Sep '17 11:06:59 AM by dragonfire5000

What about Nocturne? I know it's sort of different but it does seem to me like it still fits within the typical SMT framework. True Demon is Chaos, Freedom is Neutral and everything else is kind of Law.

As for punching gods in the face, I like gods. They're cool and interesting and Mastema was my friend.

Then again, I've been told I tend to side with anyone who has a good first impression with me....

You really do.

That's why I say "almost every." Nocturne is one of those where I would go "True Demon," if only because that's the only way you can fight Lucifer.

For Devil Survivor, I tend to go Chaos because I really liked the Chaos Eighth Day, and none of the "Neutral" paths (Atsuro and Gin) give you an Eighth Day.

Your only argument for Neutral is who let you fight against other gods, that is the only single cool part, but philosophically, and even aesthetically, Neutral is pretty boring. Is fun how the games said that Law is the mainstream group, but actually, Neutral is the popular IRL option, even in no SMT discussion.

Neutral is literally, just humanism, who in a franchise where gods are human ideals brought to life, is practically a self contradiction. Steven is the only real, consistent, good part of Neutral. I love that creep.

Also, a bit Off topic, Naoya good path is basically Neutral dressing Black and red, if Good Chaos is indistinguishable of Neutral, while Good Law still retains its utopian goal and general identity, then maybe Chaos had issues who had nothing to do with extremism. Taking De Su O 8th Days, then.

"good" Law is still something like Law, just who without genocide or massive brainwashing.

"good" Chaos, is Neutral with other name and dressing red and black.

If the "good" variant of Chaos, is literally the same as Neutral. Then Chaos really had no positives exclusive to it. While Law does have some, specially the utopian goal and social transformation.

edited 22nd Sep '17 12:58:30 PM by KazuyaProta

Warlord is Light-Chaos in actions and attitude. Majin Tensei II was similar in portraying the Light- paths as decent options and Dark- as downers.

Light-Chaos the characters decide to live at different points in history from the demon outbreak to make the world a better place. While Dark-Chaos just ends with the protagonist disappearing in time.

Light-Law followed suit where an NPC only Shitenshi shows up and gets inspired by them to save the Human, Angel, and Demon worlds by sending them back in time to kill Satan before he fires HELIOS.

edited 22nd Sep '17 1:04:01 PM by OmegaRadiance

Majin Tensei Light Law honestly, dont sound like Law at all, Law main identity is its Utopia Justifies the Means, even in De Su O, is basically the MC convinging the angels to be a bit more patients. Both MT Light endings seems like just, regular Neutral with other name.

Albeit, is kinda Hard to know how is the "light/good" versions of all alignments who arent Neutral. Given Atlus love for it.

edited 22nd Sep '17 1:09:16 PM by KazuyaProta

I'm just saying what I personally like about Neutral paths. I like how Neutral rejects the extremism of Law and Chaos, and how one can take a look at the extremists and say "No." Getting to punch out said extremists is icing on the cake.

So yeah...Neutral is not boring to me, and I still don't think it holds the series back. If anything else, I think it's one of the best parts of the series. Law and Chaos can insist all they want on how right they are. Neutral will be the one standing on their bodies at the end, ready to beat them down again and again.

Satan is trying to destroy Megalopolis (Which is basically a huge supercity of the I Is Center) where Satan is trying to kill everything cause the military initiated a coup under Angra Mainyu. Karen's future Megalopolis is a perfectly fine place to live and why she travelled back to ensure its continued existence.

Also probably something bad happens considering the Axis that connects the three worlds and Lucifer is just sitting around trying to protect the Axis while other demons in Paranoia are being dicks.

Or how Beelzebub worked with Shitenshi Camael to create the time machine that kickstarted all of Majin II and I.

edited 22nd Sep '17 1:12:03 PM by OmegaRadiance