Shin Megami Tensei Series

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!

Dancing Chiaki and Isamu made it really work.

Edit - so, I was wondering, just what is the deal with the various Archangels that show up?

I mean, they're obviously not the same ones. Is it Past Life stuff? Or is there something deeper here I am not seeing.

Also - If anyone is interested, register joining my RP as a quest.

edited 23rd Jul '14 5:24:07 PM by NickTheSwing

...

Now, there is something I was not expecting.

Can I just say I find Mothman in Nocturne strangely adorable? That weird voice he does whenever he does magic moves is really cute.

@Nick: the short answer to your question is that we're not sure. The Seraphs (as there is a demon named Archangel and I want to prevent confusion) appear to be the same throughout all continuities. They sometimes reference other game in their appearances. This is not always the case, but has been more often than not.

Lucifer is an odd duck, as he simultaneously seems to change between games and, due to the aforementioned references, is also exactly the same entity. YHVH suffers the same problem in a lot of instances. These two are supposedly the same throughout, but their characterization implies otherwise.

YHVH is kinda weird, as some earlier games imply that YHVH (or at least, the YHVH faced) is but a single facade of the Great Will, while later games use "YHVH" and "the Great Will" interchangeably.

Also, Devil Survivor has a slightly less shitty YHVH because shut up.

While we are on the subject, want to know how many different names the Expanse has? A lot. To the point where games in continuity with each other refer to it as different terms (looking at you, Majin Tenseis).

The role of a certain character in IV also sort of casts ambiguity on how much of the things done in YHVH's name are approved by YHVH. Except in II, I guess, where we know 'cause he's actually there.

...except is he?

Now, I'm not arguing that you don't kill something named YHVH, but other than his Jerkass words, what other proof do we have? The Seraphs made a fake YHVH that was pretty convincing, after all. And for all intents and purposes they're demons. They shouldn't be able to do that, if I understand the metaphysics of the universe correctly.

In other news made major headway into Sector Carina with a new batch of demons. Encountered the Wood demon talking about "what's that smell? That putrid smell of angel?" And automatically knew that there was a dick somewhere nearby.

Then sure enough I found Mastema.

edited 24th Jul '14 1:15:15 PM by Frishman

The YHVH in MTII and SMTII is explicitly referred to as the real deal, and, indeed, both of this games have Him mentioning Himself as only part of the Great Will.

Also, everyone ends up gunning for YHVH by the end of SMTII (though some folks only do if you go their route), it's kinda great. Even the Law guys think He's an asshole.

edited 24th Jul '14 1:15:19 PM by Otherarrow

The incredibly excellent ending of SMTII notwithstanding, all we have to go on that these things are the real deal are the words of YHVH, Lucifer, and Satan.

One's an asshole, one's a liar, and the last one has an incentive to pretend that someone else is totes God you guys, no serious.

You know, I've actually wondered whether Lucifer's all that much better than YHVH, or if he's just better at selling himself. YHVH is all about "Obey or else," but Lucifer actually gives reasons why he's worth following. Is he sincere, or are they just the words of the most honeyed tongue in all creation? Further complicating matters is that the most popular fan translation from the early games, Aeon Genesis, was found to have a Chaos bias...

edited 24th Jul '14 1:40:10 PM by HamburgerTime

I think a good way to look at it is that Chaos is the side of pure instinct, no higher thought processes at all and Law is the side of Instruction, no lower thought processes (desires, wants, etc) at all. The thing is, Lucifer's ideal world sounds awful. Sure, there's free will, but it's entirely survival of the strongest to the point that nothing can ever develop or change beyond who's in charge at a given moment.

Both of them really stink, but Law sounds immediately worse. However, when you think about it, for the average human in an SMT game, the choice boils down to "Hm...should I lose free will and not care about it or should I die horribly?" In that context, which sounds worse?

edited 25th Jul '14 8:19:37 AM by Zendervai

The games are all Evil Versus Evil when it comes to the Law and Chaos factions. The only exception to this rule was Shin Megami Tensei II.

edited 25th Jul '14 8:45:01 AM by VeryMelon

Well, SMTII was more "everyone versus YHVH" at the end there.

Beat Horkos and Sector Carina. Almost lost after Horkos died because of a goddamm Katarikawa he'd left behind successfully hitting Spess Mehreen with Mudo. If I hadn't had a Sacrifice in my inventory I would've had to start all over again.

I'm thinking of working the Tyrant Special Summons, but I'm not sure if it's worth it or not.

The first few boss demons are... Alright. Horkos may serve you well, I think.

Regardless, they make good fusion fodder.

So, everyone, random thought.

What does everyone here thinks about the Fan Theories that say that Naoto Shirogane is, in fact, the granddaughter of Raidou Kuzunoha the 14th?

i think they're cool.

not necessarily likely to be true but it would be cool if it was.

or maybe she's just a descendant of a different kuzunoha.

edited 26th Jul '14 8:04:58 AM by Tarsen

I have absolutely no particular qualms about it. They even have similarly excellent hats!

I find it to be a pretty fun theory myself.

I also like using those Fan Theories alongside those that say that she and Minato Arisato are related in some way. If only because it explains a lot of things about him, like how talented of a fighter he is, and how good he is at leading.

I was really into that theory 5 years ago, but now I don't have any strong feelings about it.

Considering that Naoto and Minato / Makoto will be appearing together in a game maybe we might see a nod to it.

Acording to the Liveblog I am currently following... no such thing happened, unfortunately.

I personally feel there's no real reason to suspect a connection- Aside from having dark blue hair and slight builds, they aren't especially similar.

Both are rather stoic, both are somewhat reserved, both of their parents died in a car crash when they were children, both are remarkably skilled in the use of Personae...

naoto is "remarkably skilled"?

she only has access to 3, tops.