Not sociopathic enough - : Heroic Sociopath

I tried to edit the black parts out of the "Belkar and goblins" image. This version any better?

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The LFG one seems to rely almost entirely on the text. It may as well be a quote. The Belkar one, on the other hand, seems to pretty much work even without the text.

edited 5th Dec '10 8:45:08 AM by neoYTPism

But "must work without any text" is NOT our standard. I do agree that the Belkar image works better, though. A clean art style in particular tends to help a lot for our purposes.

edited 5th Dec '10 9:15:58 AM by suedenim

Jet-a-Reeno!

But the other one seems to have nothing going for it BUT the text. It's just a guy in a villainous-looking suit saying to litter a path with bodies. Superficially he doesn't even look like the kind of guy who'd even have a heroic role.

Yeah, that's a fair point, in retrospect. Belkar's already littering the area with bodies, for one thing, while the LFG guys are just talking about littering bodies on some unspecified future date.

edited 5th Dec '10 10:02:11 AM by suedenim

Jet-a-Reeno!

"...'must work without any text' is NOT our standard..."

Agree. However, I would like to mention: looking at a version of the image without text can be very instructive.

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

Bleh, I don't like any of the Belkar pics. The text on the LFG comic is much simpler and more clear. And I'm really not getting the "heroic" from the goblins one even with the text. Also, I rather prefer the higher quality art of LFG, but that's less of an issue.

edited 5th Dec '10 4:10:46 PM by petrie911

Belief or disbelief rests with you.

I just think Order Of The Stick is used too damn much on this place. They're not that funny and the artwork is horrible.

Then again, I could be missing the point.

"The text on the LFG comic is much simpler and more clear." - petrie

Right, but if the text is doing most of the work it's almost equivalent to a caption doing most of the work.

"And I'm really not getting the "heroic" from the goblins one even with the text." - petrie

He's a human attacking goblins. Usually when humans are up against creatures like goblins, humans tend to be the heroes and goblins tend to be the villains. Or at least conventionally; not sure if the subversions have outnumbered playing that straight yet.

In any case, at least it indicates "heroic" better than someone in villainous-looking attire saying to litter a road with bodies. o.o

edited 5th Dec '10 5:31:04 PM by neoYTPism

That doesn't make it a bad image.

The LFG image is terrible. The text is fine, but otherwise it's just the badly-drawn back of I guess an elf's head, and...something else? And then some sunshine.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

Okay, those of you in favour of the LFG comic, explain your reasoning.

^I thought I was clear enough before, but I'll reiterate.

Both images rely on their dialogue to convey the full trope. LFG's image pretty clearly shows heroic, and relies on the dialogue for sociopathic. The Oot S image is relying on its dialogue to show heroic, with the image depicting sociopathic.

The problem is that while Richard's dialogue conveys sociopathic quite clearly, I'm not getting heroic out of Belkar. I suppose one could sort of infer from his dialogue that he's a PC, but it's not nearly as clear and simple as Richard.

Summary: LFG is clearly an example of the trope, Oot S is not.

Also, I think Oot S looks like crap. There, I've said it.

Belief or disbelief rests with you.

"Both images rely on their dialogue to convey the full trope." - petrie

I feel otherwise about the Belkar one, but moving on from this...

"LFG's image pretty clearly shows heroic" - petrie

What do you base this on? It's just an elf guy saying there's a long road ahead, and some weird creature in black robes saying to litter it with bodies. How does that show heroic?

"The problem is that while Richard's dialogue conveys sociopathic quite clearly, I'm not getting heroic out of Belkar." - petrie

Again, as I mentioned earlier he is attacking goblins, the kinds of creatures which at least conventionally tend to be associated with villains.

"Also, I think Oot S looks like crap." - petrie

This is not really relevant to use as a page image.

THANK you.

I'm glad I'm not alone in that regard.

edited 6th Dec '10 4:48:40 PM by ThePope

"Also, I think Oot S looks like crap." "This is not really relevant to use as a page image."

Yes it is. "Looking good" is not the primary concern, but it is a relevant concern.

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

Well, certainly not relevant on the same level as demonstrating the trope...

Yes it is. We have taken down images before for being too downright ugly. I can see why some people may be less than interested in having stick figures for images. Personally I'm not impressed with the choices so far. Belkar is not the best image... It's the least worst one.

edited 6th Dec '10 5:13:06 PM by Ghilz

IMO "looks good" is only slightly subordinate to "illustrates trope". If it's a contest between "looks good / inaccurate" and "looks bad / accurate", I think "looks bad / accurate" wins. But it's not.

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

Either way, neither image is approaching anything close to a consensus, so we'll probably have to go back to the drawing board on this.

Whether you like the art or not (IMO, it takes a hell of a lot of talent to do so much with a style that seems almost childish in its simplicity), what makes Oot S work so well for TV Tropes is clarity. The art's very clean and it's generally pretty easy to tell what's happening. A lot of good artwork does that pretty poorly, especially at 330 pixels.

edited 6th Dec '10 7:11:13 PM by suedenim

Jet-a-Reeno!

Put all options (and old page image) on Image Links, left main page with no image. Objections to a lock?

edited 6th Dec '10 7:17:01 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

Let's not be too hasty yet. If we can get more character nominations, we can get more pic candidates and probably get something better. I'd say it's not time for a lock.

Though I would recommend temporarily removing the current page image (and putting it on Atop a Mountain of Corpses) until or unless we find a new one.

Considering there has been at least a dozen more votes today, lets wait. No point in being in a hurry, the wiki's not going to explode.

You are far from getting consensus on putting that image on Atop a Mountain of Corpses. Besides, it's already on AAMOC's image links.

edited 6th Dec '10 7:46:48 PM by Ghilz

How about an image from the first issue of Sam And Max, where the duo are firing at a purse snatcher while talking about how they're not gonna hurt him, just talk to him?

Weird in a Can (updated M-F)