The Dresden Files

A thing that people seem to miss with the Dresden Files is evil is winning. There's the White Council vs. Unseelie/Red/White/Jade/Formori/God Knows What Else. Jim actually said that the only reason humans aren't completely boned is Evil Versus Evil is in effect.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

That's one of the reasons Harry destroying the Red Court in one fell swoop caused a lot of other problems, even though wiping out the Red Court meant one less major evil power in the world.

Because — along with all of the chaos wrought by the Red Court's connections to society suddenly being cut — this meant the rest of the evil powers saw an opportunity.

Disgusted, but not surprised

Yes, it's a Crapsack World.

It's just we miss it because of Harry being a heavy-hitter.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

Doesn't really gel with the whole "The supernatural is actually really scared of humanity rising against them" thing though, or is that another example of Harry talking out of his ass?

Edited by Chaosjunction on Apr 12th 2024 at 9:41:59 AM

Searching for meaning in meanings

Things are currently getting worse for humanity because that's what the series plot is about, but on the whole, over the course of human history, I don't think you can say "Team Evil is winning". You could probably make the opposite argument, honestly. A few thousand years ago, humanity was terrified of the supernatural because they had little power to oppose it, but modern humanity has the luxury of not even believing that the supernatural exists because supernatural beings are afraid of them.

Like, it's not hard to envision a version of the Dresden Files setting where the world is openly ruled by various supernatural factions, and humans are under strict control as slaves, playthings, or simply food. Instead, we have a situation where a "practical guide to killing vampires" was published as fiction and it had a profound effect. It wiped out the Black Court almost completely without even convincing humanity at large that vampires are real.

Harry's right on this one. In Dresden Files, humans are weak, ignorant, and easily preyed on, but humanity is a terrifying and unstoppable force of nature.

Edited by NativeJovian on Apr 12th 2024 at 11:00:33 AM

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

The Dresden Files is an inherently punk series and the supernatural is in control of most of the world as established with the setting.

I feel like people forget The Masquerade is another sign of how screwed over humanity is. It means that the Red Court, Formori, and other groups can feed with impunity because humanity doesn't even KNOW there's monsters feeding on them.

It's not a sign of how humanity is a sleeping giant, it's a sign that they don't even believe in the things they used to.

But the fact that they DON'T Know means it's WORSE for them than in the Middle Ages. Humanity is WORSE OFF in that respect.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Apr 12th 2024 at 8:03:47 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

You really think humanity knew about them back then?

Why do you think the Masquerade is a wholly modern thing?

If anything the Masquerade is way harder to maintain in modern times.

Edited by M84 on Apr 12th 2024 at 11:15:06 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

Because in the Middle Ages, people by and large did believe in fairies and demons and magic.

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko

Nah, humanity has always been good at denying things that scare them. That more than anything is what helps keep the Masquerade in place.

Disgusted, but not surprised

I mean, I'm assuming they did in the Middle Ages of the Dresden Files universe.

I'm also assuming the world's governments are hand in pocket with the evil supernaturals in the setting.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Apr 12th 2024 at 8:31:20 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

But why would the monsters be scared of humanity as a whole? Our greatest strength, technology inherently doesn't work on them. Numbers? I don't think that'd make much difference if they got really serious about getting rid of us.

Even in modern times, Dresden Files humans are still perfectly capable of denying the supernatural, even with hard evidence.

Edited by Chaosjunction on Apr 12th 2024 at 10:34:08 AM

Searching for meaning in meanings

I don't think they are. I think it's inconvenient.

In my "Red Room" books, I justified The Masquerade not because it was "Humanity, Fuck Yeah" but because it would utterly make things worse for everyone. Because some humans would form armies of Inquisitors, others would swear allegiance to the vampires, and others would end up trying to summon Cthulhu.

Predators understand the value of stealth and what better way to be stealthy than have your prey don't believe you exist.

The greatest trick Satan pulled and all that.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Apr 12th 2024 at 8:33:42 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

What? Did you miss that bit in Battlegrounds?

Fomori get blown to pieces by attack choppers.

Military grade firepower works well enough.

Edited by M84 on Apr 12th 2024 at 11:34:18 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

I mean it's Harry's opinion.

He does have some valid points as the moment the US army arrives, the Formor are fucked.

Didn't like a quarter of their race get killed?

But the Formor are lower class supernaturals versus, say, Shagnasty.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Apr 12th 2024 at 8:34:42 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

I didn't. Still doesn't avoid the fact that magic kills tech.

Edited by Chaosjunction on Apr 12th 2024 at 10:37:07 AM

Searching for meaning in meanings

And everyone is worried about the Librarians of Congress getting involved.

and tech kills wizards just fine too.

Edited by M84 on Apr 12th 2024 at 11:38:10 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

I don't know if Shagnasty counts since he's just a lone figure, no matter how powerful. And hey, Morgan nuked one of his peers back in a day.

So for "ordinary" supernaturals like Red or White Courts or the Fomor, technology works perfectly fine; it's less about its effectiveness and more about getting to a point where you accept there is a giant frog sorcerer on your doorstep and not, say, a gas leak-induced hallucination, so that you can use it.

It wouldn't work for Outsiders or other heavyweights, but as far as supernatural factions go, humanity has means of fighting back if pushed.

Edited by FergardStratoavis on Apr 12th 2024 at 5:39:28 PM

How do lizards fly?

And the Black Court was nearly rendered extinct just by releasing a piece of fiction based on them to the public.

As for Outsiders, it is not like most magic users who aren’t Starborn do that well either.

Edited by M84 on Apr 12th 2024 at 11:41:58 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

That's Side Jobs.

• Restoration of Faith - With the knowledge that this is the first ever Dresden work, its faults can be somewhat excused. Can definitely see hints of high fantasy that Butcher wanted to do and later figured out with Codex Alera. I can see Harry's general character of a pop-cultured smartass who's gruff and cynical and withdrawn - but nonetheless is a hero and a decent person. That bit about the Accords protecting mortals is definitely looking silly considering pretty much all signatories (barring White Council, maybe, and some freeholders) had done plenty of harm to humanity. Also interesting that Dresden doesn't really use any magic on-screen beyond some light show for Faith.
• Vignettes - Short and sweet. Not much to say admittedly, it felt nice to read but nothing really jumps out at it beyond it being a little meta-y.
• Something Borrowed - I think this one is my least favorite. Nothing really interesting about it beyond reintroducing a minor character from Summer Knight as an antagonist and Murphy and Bob meeting. Harry drowning in a bowl of punch is an amusing imagery, at least.
• It's My Birthday, Too - This isn't the story's fault, but this is where the whole "oh, sorry, politically correct crowd, it's x-person instead" jumped out at me - and it really bothers me in a way it hadn't before. I wonder if it's the language difference. Or maybe it has to do with a rather large amount of describing Sarah and Ennui. The story itself is fine; I like the Cobbs although it's convenient that they are at this very mall; plus, I like the discussion about how a freshly-raised Blampire isn't necessarily less dangerous simply because it might not burn as well. And it also shows off that Harry can be resourceful even without his usual tools.
• Heorot - It was a lot like Something Borrowed, but somehow better. Maybe it's because Gard and the Grendelkin both get fleshed out more compared to Jenny Greenteeth and her crab flunkies (since Billy's stepmother-in-law is taking some screentime for herself), or maybe because it showed that some nasties are still a class above Dresden and he can't punch these out in a simple contest of strength. Another show of resourcefulness, although Gard's runes definitely helped here.
• Day Off - I think this one is my favorite. It does something different, and it has a lot of amusing things going on. I mean, it says a lot that this is one of the more lighthearted stories in the book even despite the fact that Molly almost died to a mishap with acid. Dresden getting annoyed at how magic works is definitely an early highlight. Darth Wannabe is also fun, because one of the things I don't think happens a lot in these stories is Harry interacting with magical small-fries that aren't his clients or people to save (there's Mort, but he gets much better); the Looney Tunes-esque fight scene with Kirby is just a cherry on top.
• Backup - The idea of Oblivion War is definitely... something. I'm not sure how I feel about it. Obviously Dresden isn't the center of the universe (despite what he may sometimes jokingly(?) assert), but the whole "a 6000-year-old conflict for the memory of humankind" definitely feels a bit farfetched, especially since Venators only appear to number in about 200. Having Thomas as a POV was a change, but not as big as I thought it would be; he and Harry are rather similar despite all the differences.
• The Warrior - If it's not Day Off, then this one is definitely a favorite. In-between small bits of human kindness, the choice of the antagonist, and a look into Michael post-retirement; all of these make a nice combination together.
• Last Call - Dresden/Murphy cop show. "I'm the good cop" bit definitely made me smile. The story itself is kind of nothing though. It's not bad, but it doesn't really stick out to me much beyond reusing Caine from Heorot.
• Love Hurts - Dresden/Murphy heart-to-heart. The problem and the big bad (incidentally from the Red Court and this book is set right before Changes, too; like come on, a Red Vamp that only uses its brawn hadn't been a threat since Storm Front; even Hamiltons had to sneak up on Harry to have a prayer) are kind of secondary to their overall interactions and feelings for one another, whammied or not. I liked the idea of them leaving Chicago and bumming around the state fair though.
• Aftermath - An interesting one; I'm not sure how I feel about it. Murphy's POV is definitely more distinct than Thomas's though; one thing that jumped out at me is that she compares the color of Marcone's eyes with days-old cut grass as opposed to Harry's "faded dollar bills". Nothing felt like a proto-Listen; tough, determined, much more dangerous than his boss. The bit with Ray, about how criminals think cops are just like them, but with a carrying permit and a badge... well, that definitely is one of those things that age like milk. Then again, one could argue Murphy is a rare "good cop" that had been chased out of CPD's power structures to the Antarctica that is SI - and then ran out of it entirely when she chose to do what's right over what's lawful.

Ghost Story next, and I know that one is an odd duck out of the books.

Edited by FergardStratoavis on Apr 20th 2024 at 12:12:18 PM

How do lizards fly?

It's not mentioned in Backup but IIRC the leader of the Venatori is actually the Archive, and the Oblivion War is the reason she was created in the first place; her job is to ensure that all written records of a nasty are gone, and then she erases them for good when they are by deleting them from her memory.

Heart of Stone

I'm not sure any of the Venatori actually know the Archive's role in the war, but yes, that's what it is. She gives any given entity a century or so to make sure no one writes anything new down about it before she erases it. She might also be the only one who knows how successful the war has been, if she keeps a tally of her deletions.

Now, my issue with the Oblivion War is Thomas's claim that the faeries were a target, until the printing press and the Brothers Grimm made their deletion impractical. The Archive and those in the know are quite well aware of Winter's role in the defense of reality against the Outsiders; why would the Venatori want to bar Faerie from the mortal realm? Their involvement is a net positive, for all their nasty qualities. Besides, their nature is a bit different from the eldritch horrors the Venatori are opposed to; they're connected to mortality and many of the most powerful Sidhe were once mortal themselves. I'm not sure it was ever possible to remove them.

Edited by HeraldAlberich on Apr 20th 2024 at 9:56:40 AM

Harry doesn’t even have a clue the Oblivion War is a thing.

Disgusted, but not surprised

Winter doesn't need to enter the mortal realm to defend the Outer Gates, do they?

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Is how they make more soldiers

IIRC the reason the winter court is so horny all of the time is because they have to spoot out as many children as possible to make up for all the casualties in defending the gates

Edited by asterism on Apr 20th 2024 at 6:43:06 PM

Heart of Stone

Right, many fae live their lives in the mortal world, and some don't bother people at all, like the Miksani who are Inuit bird-people that teach Molly the hard lesson of Winter resources.

Beyond that, I feel like if the fae were shut out of the mortal world, there'd be an interest problem. The Winter foot soldiers follow orders, but their Sidhe masters need to have a reason to care about defending reality, and without their mortal playground I feel like sheer ennui might outweigh the obvious "because we live here" self-interest.

At the highest level, the Queens' mantles might require a mortal host? Or at least a changeling like Sarissa. Mab and Titania were mortals long ago, and I think there's a Word of Jim that at least one of the Queen Mothers has fallen and been replaced, even longer ago. So if one of them falls in battle, they need the mortal world to keep their power structure from falling apart.