The Hobbit

There is a passage in The Fellowship of the Ring where the Hobbits are encouraged to run around naked in the grass by Tom Bombadil. I haven't read The Hobbit recently enough to remember if any such thing goes on with the Dwarves.

"dwarfs are into nude bathing"

I was sorta under the impression that everyone undresses to bath.

To be fair, that was at least partially because they'd been captured by barrow wights, their old clothes were gone, and they were currently wearing creepy sacrificial robes and whatnot.

Under the circumstances I can see running around naked being the preferable option.

Also of note is that the hobbits all bathed in the same room when they went to Crickhollow before leaving the Shire completely.

They were all nude at one of the fountains in Riverdell in the extended version.

So more like a nude beach thing instead of nude at a bathhouse thing.

That's only half-true. Tolkien wanted to write a "mythology for England" (not Britain; the difference was kind of important to Tolkien) when he worked on The Book of Lost Tales, which is unambiguously set in our world. In the oldest draft, Britain was (what later became) Tol Eressea, and it was supposed to end with the Anglo-Saxons conquering the island by defeating the elves in battle.

But (obviously) he never finished that book. Then came The Hobbit, and the whole mythology was migrated to a fantasy continent.

How is LOTR British mythology when it's pretty much Norse Mytholgical beings with a little bit of Christianity sprinkled in? Hardly any British folklore. If it were, elves would be Keebler style.

Er, the elves in Tolkien's writings are nothing like the elves in Norse mythology. As the matter of fact, elves barely play a role in any known Norse myth. They're described as being divided into Light Elves and Dark Elves, the latter of which are implied to be synonymous with dwarfs, in Snorri's Edda, but no myth involving the gods has any major elf characters.

Just because Tolkien was inspired by Norse Mythology, doesn't mean he had to make the elves Norse Myth-style. He used Norse Mythology as a tool to get somewhere different, not replicate the same characteristics.

I'm not saying he had to. I was just refuting washington213's notion that Tolkien took all his beings unchanged from Norse mythology, and the implication that the elves would otherwise be vastly different.

Ah, ok. Didn't read washington's post.

Tolkien took ideas from both Norse Mythology, British/pre-British Mythology and Christianity (Catholicism, to be more precise). There's no definite conclusion to "which had the most influence in the world of Middle-Earth", imo.

Tolkien's elves are totally Norse. They're obviously light elves. Just because there's not many Norse myths involving light elves doesn't change the fact that Tolkien's elves are Norse. Immortal badasses that are highly adept at magic. Also, nature and fertility spirits, hence being in tune with nature. Granted, they weren't taken completely unchanged, but few mythological creatures are.

In fact, there being only elves and dwarves/dark elves only highlights the point further.

Wasn't LOTR significantly based off of some Norse mythological play that I can't remember the name of?

A single play? No.

Oh, that's right, it's like "The Something Saga" or whatever, right? For some reason I never put it together that "saga" means there's probably more than one play.

Tolkien wouldn't write something based on one thing only. That was not his modus operandi.

Hmm? Oh, no, that's not what I meant. That's why I said "significantly." Like, yeah, obvs LOTR and the world of Middle-Earth are based on a bunch of different things mixed in with some good ol' Tolkien-brand creativity. I was just saying, I was under the impression large swaths of the story (or at least imagery) are inspired by that play series which I really wish someone would bring up the name of right about now ' cause it's bugging me and I'm too lazy to Google it.

You mean The Ring Cycle?

That's the one! It wasn't "Saga," it was "Cycle", my bad.

I think The Eddas, The Saga of the Volsungs, The Kalevala (Finnish Myth) were the most influential myths that Tolkien drew upon.

Tolkien denied he was directly inspired by the Ring Cycle, and it's probably true, but the similarities were likely due to being influenced by the same sources (like the ones I just listed).

edited 29th Jan '15 7:20:16 PM by Ekuran

@Washington: And where does the popular conception of Norse elves as "immortal badasses that are highly adept at magic" come from? From Tolkien, that's where. The remaining written sources just describe light elves as "more beautiful than the sun", and... that's kind of it. The modern conception of aloof, cultured and refined "high elves" has little to do with mythology.

The only named character in a known myth to be explicitly identified as an elf is Wayland the smith, who is... not particularly Tolkien-esque. What's more, a different telling of his story instead identifies him as the son of a giant, which really underlines how vague the distinctions between these various magical creatures are in mythology.

edited 30th Jan '15 2:44:36 AM by DrDougsh

It's been 2-3 weeks, and I still think the dwarfs are a woobie race.

I'm just waiting for the extended edition of BOFA to come out xD

Hopefully it'll have Dáin Ironfoot becoming King Under the Mountain and cementing his status as the hero the Middle Earth deserves.

Along with an actual funeral for Thorin, Fili, and Kili, and crowning for Bard to be King of Dale, too. Everyone who didn't read the book is left wondering What Happened to the Mouse? because Bilbo just goes "Well, see ya!" and peaces out with Gandalf.

edited 1st Feb '15 9:10:01 PM by theLibrarian

I can't help but infer a lot of inspiration from Shakespeare's plays in Tolkien's works.

Things like a forest marching on a castle; protagonists attempting endeavours they know can not succeed, but feel compelled to undertake for greater, intangible purpose; protagonists being haunted by the deeds of their predecessors; and don't forget 'No man can kill me'.