Umineko No Naku Koro Ni

So… does anyone have any idea what's going to happen next?

The story shall be resolved and everything will make sense.

I hope so.

I loved Umineko but I've really dropped out of Chiru. I might read it when its all finished and available.

I suppose you dropped after EP 6 (the most confusing, in my opinion)? If so, you might want to read EP 7. It is just half translated so far, but the first half alone is pretty much all exposition. Specially about "who is Beatrice". These answers are not too far fetched either. Even the most "absurd" of them, that seem to be an Ass Pull at first had foreshadowing (that I had not even had to read back to remember).

I would say Umineko is definitively going to a resolved end.

After Ep 5 actually, but from reading some spoilers in Ep 6 (not a smart way to judge something I know). Thats good to hear though. I think I'll still have to wait, since its better I buy them all together.

Can't argue with that. I am dieing right now for knowing what happens next. Though I believe the next half won't take long to be released, since everything is already translated (the editing seems to be quite hard, though. Even the Epitaph will have to be changed).

About EP 5. Now you mention, I remember becoming very annoyed with this episiode. Not confused, just annoyed. The way Erika talked about the meta world freely and the very unnatural way everyone reacted (by just being leaded by her without giving opinion) annoyed me to no end because it seemed to cement the 'fantasy only' theory. I felt really betrayed by that as it would mean half of the previous episodes were fake.

That annoying feelings prevented me to see the hints that most of the episode was staged, with fake deaths. With the objective of pressing Natsuhi to confess Kinzo was dead all time. After reading on-line that theory and reviewing some scenes I regained my faith and good will with the game.

Then EP 6 comes and made everything confusing again. ^^; After the previous episode, though, I decided to not let me own again so I was not so abated this time.

Anyway, don't lose your faith. When in doubt, look in a few forums (or the Umineko no Naku Koro ni page) for new crazy theories. Even if you don't believe them it will help you to think in another angle so you can form your own thinkings.

Thank you! Absolutely. I think part of the problem also was, that I had the expectation things would get clearer with Chiru (much the same way that everything suddenly make sense in Higurashi with Kai). I'll certainly get back into reading it again and just roll with it =)

I already posted on the thread in the Visual Novel section, but I thought it worth posting here too. It seems EP 7 reveals some new things about the Epitaph. This make Witch-Hunt reconsider how tey have made it translation so they are making a new version for the newest patch. They do not ganratee it is going to be the final version, so expect a few more changes in near future.

Here the new translation and their old version (the last has in bold what was changed):

Behold the sweetfish river running through my beloved hometown.
You who seek the Golden Land, follow its path downstream in search of the key.

As you travel down it, you will see a village.
In that village, look for the shore the two will tell you of.
There sleeps the key to the Golden Land.

The one who obtains the key must then travel to the Golden Land in accordance with these rules.

On the first twilight, offer the six chosen by the key as sacrifices.
On the second twilight, those who remain shall tear apart the two who are close.
On the third twilight, those who remain shall praise my noble name.
On the fourth twilight, gouge the head and kill.
On the fifth twilight, gouge the chest and kill.
On the sixth twilight, gouge the stomach and kill.
On the seventh twilight, gouge the knee and kill.
On the eighth twilight, gouge the leg and kill.
On the ninth twilight, the witch shall revive, and none shall be left alive.
On the tenth twilight, the journey shall end, and you shall reach the capital where the gold dwells.

The witch shall praise the wise and bestow four treasures.

One shall be all the gold from the Golden Land.
One shall be the resurrection of all the dead souls.
One shall be the resurrection of the love that was lost.
One shall be to put the witch to sleep for all time.

Sleep peacefully, my most beloved witch, Beatrice.

My beloved hometown, the sweetfish river running through it.
You who seek the Golden Land, follow its path downstream and seek the key.

If you follow the river downstream, you will find a village.
In the village, look for the shore the two will tell you of.
There sleeps the key to the Golden Land.

He who lays hand upon the key shall travel under the rules below.

At the first twilight, you shall lift up as sacrifice the six chosen by the key.
At the second twilight, those who remain shall tear apart the two who are close.
At the third twilight, those who remain shall praise my honorable name on high.
At the fourth twilight, gouge the head and kill.
At the fifth twilight, gouge the chest and kill.
At the sixth twilight, gouge the belly and kill.
At the seventh twilight, gouge the knee and kill.
At the eighth twilight, gouge the leg and kill.
At the ninth twilight, the witch shall be revived, and none shall be left alive.
At the tenth twilight, the journey shall end, and you should reach the village of gold.

The witch shall praise the wise and bestow four treasures.

One shall be, all the gold from the Golden Land.
One shall be, the resurrection of the souls of all the dead.
One shall be, even the resurrection of the lost love.
One shall be, to put the witch to sleep for all time.

Sleep peacefully, my most beloved witch, Beatrice.

This old Epitaph is from my 4.2 patch (hope I hadn't messed up anything).

edited 10th Dec '10 1:40:58 PM by Heatth

Chiru is indeed much less helpful than Kai. It's bothersome to have to wait this long for answers, the Epileptic Trees growing away…

The last episode is due out this month. Then, all our answers will be questioned!

....Want, I think I got that backwards....

posted by accident

edited 25th Dec '10 1:28:45 AM by Supertest

Everyone ready for episode 8?

There is an episode 8?

It's coming out tomorrow

It is only going to get more confusing and more headachey from here.

Doesn't this discussion belong in the thread over on Visual Novels? That subforum needs more love.

Can anyone please spoil me as to what the multiple endings are? I can't find them. *tear*

^^PM a mod to have it moved, then.

Well, as far as I know...

There are only two endings.

One of them feels like a generic Visual Novel bad ending. Ange notices that Amakusa and Okonogi are working together to kill her and Kasumi, so she shoots Amakusa and Kawabata and goes to the island alone. The story ends there.

The other is the true ending, where Ange gives up her investigation. We find out that the true culprits are Rudolf, Kyrie and Battler (Battler is an unwilling accomplice more than anything else, though). Kyrie solves the epitaph, finds the gold. Rudolf and Kyrie decide to kill everyone. Battler is ordered to kill Beato? but he ultimately doesn't do it, but he reports to his parents that he has killed her. Later Rudolf and Kyrie confront Rosa and they kill each other. Battler escapes with Beato and they hide in the submarine cave to survive the explosion. Beato feels that everything is her fault and tries to kill herself and throws herself to the water. Battler jumps after her trying to save her or something. Battler is washed ashore and was picked up by Hachijo (whose real name is Yashiro Ikuko). He doesn't seem to remember anything besides his age (18) but has confused memories about his past and what happened on the island. Together, they write the tales of Rokkenjima under the alias Hachijo Tohya (Tohya is 18, Hachijo another reading for Yashiro), as a way to reconstruct his memories and find the truth about himself and the island and since he can't tell Ange the truth he doesn't want to meet her. Nobody knows he's alive or his true identity, except for Ikuko.

Take into account that I may be wrong, of course.

edited 2nd Jan '11 12:07:35 PM by Ganel

Wow, thats basically a kick in the nads for fans of the series...

...Darn. Those endings are really stinking sad. So much for Earn Your Happy Ending. I presume that in the Bad Ending, when Ange goes to Rokkenjima, since Amakusa isn't there with her, she gets killed by Kasumi, right? Then does Kasumi get off scott-free?

In the bad ending, Ange takes an Erika approach to things (Erika even appears there to advise her, Eva Beatrice style), so she might even be going there with the intention of killing Kasumi herself.

Ah, okay. But wait, then in which ending does Ange commit suicide?

Ange threatening to kill herself is part of the main story. You can't not see it.

Oh man, this work.

• The anime is terrible, don't watch it, it has a lot of plot holes and will leave you confused, and it ends on a cliffhanger.
• The Visual Novel is long and you need to find a decent translation.

Now mind, I haven't paid attention to this in years, but...

What is Umineko about? Fresh off of Higurashi, I expected something a little mind-boggling. A family visits an island owned by the elderly head of the family. The old man engages in some Faustian Deal with a blonde witch, Beatrice, who initiates a murder game with the prize of untold riches for the winner. The "Golden Land", some magical place of happiness IIRC.

However, Beatrice is a witch, and she cheats. The entire family ends up dead.

...or do they? We immediately see them reunited, going eerily Meta on us while they discuss how shocking these events were. They're in the "Golden Land", with Beatrice, their murderer.

What.

Then Battler has that look on his face. "Wait, what the fuck, how could she have killed us with magic? There's no such thing as magic."

Then everyone looks at him, and I still get chills just thinking about it. "Battler, of course it was magic. What other rational explanation could there be."

To this day, that scene still scares the crap out of me.

So then Beatrice, amused, dissolves the meeting and challenges Battler to prove that the murders were all committed by humans, and there the story gets interesting. Interesting in that it pulls the same thing that Higurashi did, bending the laws of time and space as we rewind events in a different manner. Suddenly the narrative shifts to an interdimensional battle of wits between an all-powerful witch and a mortal man.

Beatrice and Original!Battler begin a game of their own, where the arc's events are rewound to show what happened in another timeline with different events. Oh and mind, they're doing this with alternate versions of Battler existing while the original is watching his other self act in different ways. Pretty sure his other self is forced into a cannibalistic dinner at one point.

Now, before I go on, some things that always bothered me with this premise.

First, how can Battler prove magic doesn't exist in this scenario? The alternative is that he is really fucking crazy and conceptualized a series of imaginary, grisly murders.

Second, how does it make any sense to examine how the original scenario could have been, what happened, when the game involves an altered version of events every single time? In Higurashi this makes some wicked kind of sense, since we're going through different timelines, just not always from Rika's perspective, and she's trying to manipulate the Butterfly Effect to prevent her own murder. In Umineko, this seems like Beatrice and the other witches being massive dicks.

Third, I don't know what Battler gains out of all this. Bragging rights? He loses, he's dead, he wins, most of his family is dead. I don't remember what happened after the "first loss", the anime cuts away and its implied they all died afterward, but again, that scene was close to the fourth wall. I don't remember Beatrice promising him anything if he won, they both just wanted the other person to submit to their logic.

Anyway, what I like here is that first moment when Beatrice and Battler go back in time. In the anime, this moment caught me off guard. Things started to 'click' when I realized how they were arguing the narrative, I liked how Beatrice started coming up with things like the "red text", and I hear more got added later. This got me really psyched to sit down and figure things out.

Unfortunately, the anime wasn't dubbed, and between my own childish paranoia and lack of interest, I never finished watching it. The original 6-7 episodes creeped me out enough that I don't really want to rewatch it from the beginning either. To top things off, the internet would later tell me the anime was inconclusive.

But, I've gotten a bunch of juicy spoilers since then - since this is a VN, there's multiple routes including one with an Evil!Battler or something, and Battler actually having a sister named Ange who's somehow integral to the mystery or something, not sure how that's related.

Problem is I'm never going to play it. And judging from how the Higurashi wiki looks, I'll never get the full scope of the plot from the Wiki.

So I guess what I ultimately want is for a summary of the events from someone who's actually played it/watched all of it. What's the mystery really? Does Battler disprove magic? Is Beatrice actually an evil witch or some tragically misunderstood person - the anime's first opening has a shot that makes her look really sad. Do I want to finish the anime, or does it end like Gantz and leave you with more questions than answers?

So far, through memory and spoilers, I've whittled it down to:

• Battler and his family head to the island to vacation.
• Old man is cray cray.
• Beatrice appears.
• Lots of death.
• Battler averts a horrible ending, he's literally filling in for the player, resetting the game and trying to figure out a better way.
• He does this at least 4 times, the 4th time is when you've lost.
• Battler can win.
• Beatrice can win.

I understand that might be asking a lot given the tangle of events that ensue, but I figured I'd ask.

edited 25th Nov '15 1:39:34 AM by Soble