Avatar (James Cameron film)

The way I look at this awful film is pretty simple - it's like Independence Day, only we are the aliens.

Complete with contrived win against said "aliens".

It's not Independence Day until we come back with Project Thor, an orbital kinetic bombardment platform that drops guided telephone poles made of tungsten which impact the earth with the destructive force of a tactical nuclear bomb, but without a nuke's resulting fallout making an already inhospitable climate that much more unlivable.

When weapons platforms are dropping explosives capable of leveling entire cities from the safety of orbit while sipping martinis and idly wondering how long until the extermination is complete, then it's Independence Day.

edited 19th Nov '14 6:58:04 AM by TobiasDrake

I'll be okay with this if it means seeing Jeff Goldblum and Brent Spiner as Na'vi.

There have been many civilizations that kept up practices like slavery or infanticide or massacre for centuries before enough people there realized this was wrong. Five generations is comparatively short, and it was probably even shorter considering environmental damage would show its effects earlier. I believe the backstory even mentions efforts to fix the planet, like cloning whales and such. All those people actually trying to undo the damage are going be just as screwed by the Navi's embargo.

You can't consider pre-industrial timespans here, because since then society advances much more quickly on many subjects. Many things that happened in the Antiquity or the Middle-Ages could simply not happen today. Everything moves faster. So five generations is HUGE - and I only say 5 gens because people get kids later these days, because 140 years could be closer to six or seven gens.

140 years ago, people had no cars, no electricity, they did not know about genetics or antibiotics...so considering our current knowledge, if in 2154 we still have not been able to deal with pollution, climate change and global warming, then we are a doomed species. And I would definitely not want to sacrifice other sentient beings to bet on an hypothetical survival even though humans still don't know shit about respecting environment.

Consider that humanity started harming the environment in 1900 - and even then it was nothing compared to what is happening today - and realized what was happening in 1970. As of today, we have had 45 years of ecology, and many, many environmentally irresponsble actions have already been identified - too many to count, really - along with a LOT of interesting options to solve these problems. In 2150, we will have had potentially 180 years of ecology - 4 times as much as what we have today. If we have not been able to understand how not to harm a planet, then why exactly should we still hope for change ?

It's a lot easier to know how to keep your home planet in balance when the planet sics its wildlife on you if you treat it bad. Humans do not have that "benefit". We have to figure out what's wrong the hard way.

We already do know for the most part. We do know, but we do not act.

there are and always will be good people on Earth, people who are trying to heal the damage we've done. And children who've done nothing wrong but be born into consumerist societies. Do they all deserve to die slow, choking deaths as the last resources dwindle? That's what Jake decided when he banished humans from Pandora, he took the lives of billions of people and doomed them all. Some hero.

There are and always will be good Na'vi on Pandora, Na'vi who are trying to leave peacefully alongside possible colonists. And Na'vi children who who've done nothing wrong but be born when a parasitic species decided to destroy their planet. Do they all deserve to die violent, brutal deaths as their home is burned to the ground ? That's what many people seem to have decided when they wish for Pandora to be carpet-bombed as a retaliation, taking the lives of billions of Na'vi and dooming them all. Some moral high ground.

edited 19th Nov '14 1:53:13 PM by Julep

Because, like I said, the backstory actually does mention efforts to repair the planet, efforts that the RDA has become involved with. It's a large enough corp that it can afford itself a private army. Big corps like them were primarily responsible for much of the ecological damage, then more recently are funding smaller organizations who try to fix the environment, now that the pollution is actually impeding the RDA's business rather than aiding it. So good people do exist on Earth, even if they are the minority.

So does the RDA. The reason why they haven't done anything about it on Earth up till now is because there haven't been consequences before. The Na'vi learned how to cooperate with their environment due to much faster consequences. They're not more moral, but more pragmatic.

That really avoids his question.

edited 19th Nov '14 2:18:56 PM by Tuckerscreator

Way to dismiss my concerns, matey.

So does the RDA. The reason why they haven't done anything about it on Earth up till now is because there haven't been consequences before. The Na'vi learned how to cooperate with their environment due to much faster consequences. They're not more moral, but more pragmatic.

So you want to trust a corporation that already proved that it only cared about environment when its profits were threatened ? Even though this same corporation had been warned for decades, maybe even centuries, without doing anything ? Especially since the solution it favors to "solve" Earth's problems - until presumably they start getting money again at which point they will stop pretending they care about environment - is to destroy another planet.

Because I'm sorry, but if you consider that this corporation is "pragmatic", then there is no way in hell it will stop mining as soon as it gets enough minerals. They would turn Pandora into Mars if it means a couple thousand billion dollars of profits. And next time Earth is on the verge of becoming a wasteland, they may not have another civilization to eradicate to save their asses.

I don't trust the RDA to change humanity's course or theirs, but I trust the smaller organizations to. The fact that the RDA has had to renege, forgo some of its practices, and fund organizations opposed to their cause has got to be a cultural shock to the people, a realization that the RDA and other corps like it are neither all-controlling nor infallible. They're sure to publicize some of those repair efforts; it'd make a good headline to show "Hey everyone! We brought whales back!" The more people sign up to repair the environment, the better chance that the RDA can be pushed off its throne and someone sane can oversee the Pandora operations and negotiate with the Na'vi instead. I'm not the biggest fan of Michael Moore, but he had a point when he said: "The rich man will sell you the rope to hang himself with if he thinks he can make a buck off it."

Yeah, but the same can be achieved if the RDA comes back from Pandora empty-handed because its soldiers got their asses handed to them by the Na'vi. Before the war, Earth people were getting some minerals, now, thanks to Colonel McKilldestroyburn, they get nothing. Suddenly, cooperating with the Na'vi looks like it was the best move after all, and that it could be smart to put some effort again in it, but this time, with smart people instead of greedy ones.

edited 20th Nov '14 11:41:24 AM by Julep

They should clone Dr. Grace Augustine back to life to lead that up.

Although the clone may have na'vi powers like acid blood.

edited 20th Nov '14 11:43:59 AM by Bocaj

We'll see. As pointed out earlier, what Earth hears about what happened on Pandora is going to be colored entirely on the testimony of some very bitter RDA survivors. Given as the next film has got to have some bad guys and a plot, I highly doubt the RDA will have any loss of authority with operations on Pandora. Now they can go: "See? This is why we need an even bigger army! With nukes and all!"

Side-effects include protectiveness of little girls, ability to drive mecha, and extreme basketball skills.

edited 20th Nov '14 12:00:50 PM by Tuckerscreator

Also, being the Gatekeeper.

Does that make Jake the Keymaster? Because that would totally explain why he abandoned his mission to turn some keys with Neytiri.

James Cameron Announces Four 'Avatar' Sequels

Fox plans to release one film each year starting Christmas 2018.

Well, Cameron faces an uphill battle. But then again, folks said that about Avatar and Titanic too, so who knows. But the cinematic landscape today is very different than from 2009.

I wonder if Cameron will finally be hiring Julian Smith as his cameraman.

Cameron has a huge advantage in terms of creative freedom as no one actually remembers what happened in the first Avatar.

edited 15th Apr '16 1:47:26 PM by BigMadDraco

There's a quote floating around◊, alleging that James Cameron decided to make four sequels solely to disprove a tweet that the first Avatar wasn't memorable. But I can't find a reputable source for the quote (as in, I can't find anything aside from an image of some text, with no attributed source whatsoever), so it's probably BS.

It's a joke. A joke I found pretty funny, but yeah, it comes from comedian Dana Schwartz after she tweeted "name any character or quote from ''Avatar''" a month before Cameron's announcement. She does some funny stuff.

edited 17th Apr '16 1:53:59 AM by Tuckerscreator

I prefer the "Cameron is making these sequels that nobody wants to a film that nobody really remembers anything about other than the spectacle out of spite" explanation myself.

It would be better if he got the Terminator rights back and sorted that shit out but he's too cheap to use his vast wealth to do so.

I remember a ton of images from Avatar, much more than from basically any other AAA movie that came since - that includes all superhero movies, and Star Wars. The world was that glorious to watch.

The only recent movie for which I remember as many pictures/scenes is Pacific Rim. Whose plot was equally as thin and forgettable, incidentally. Sometimes, you don't see a movie for the one-liners or the Character Development, you see it because it looks stupidly cool.

Edit: oh, actually, I remember one line for each of these movies - "Toruq Mak'to" and "Tonight we are cancelling the Apocalypse".

edited 19th Apr '16 10:27:23 AM by Julep

Do people really not rememeber it that well? I know the two main leads are Jake Sully and Neytiri, there's some guy named Quartitch that wants Unobtainium, the planet is watched over by the god Eywa, and Jake unites a bunch of tribes against Quartitch. It's not some great work of fiction but I don't think it's that forgettable.

I vividly remember Jake's incompetence kickstarting the war by being put in a dilemma where he was given instructions and needed to do one of the following:

1. Explain to the Na'vi that the humans are here for the Unobtainium that, hilariously, is actually named Unobtainium and convince them to let the humans mine the substance from their holy land.
2. Warn the Na'vi that the humans are coming for the Unobtainium so they can prepare some manner of defense against them.

To which he responded by ignoring both options and tree-f*cking his girlfriend.

Truly he is a hero for the ages.

The setting is easy to remember, like the setting of any AAA movie that is not directed by Christopher "It's still too understandable!" Nolan.

Calling it forgettable, I think, is a reflex kneejerk reaction to its numerous audience records, whereas many viewers would probably have preferred another movie to be #1. On the other hand, I feel like Titanic's popularity really improved since it is not the all-time number 1 anymore, and I assume that Avatar will be in the same situation once another movie beats its numbers.

edited 19th Apr '16 12:12:31 PM by Julep