Kingdom Hearts

But then why does Xemnas say that the Grid isn't a dream? What was the point of that line?

3d is dumbdumb

Young Xehanort explains the nature of the Grid and only to Sora. Riku doesn't meet any Xehanort in his version of the Grid (which is the one which isn't real).

"It may seem complicated, but actually it's just stupid"

Honestly, one of the things that I hate about the Grid's plot is that there's essentially no chance of it ever being concluded in a satisfying way despite the Kingdom Hearts version of it having No Ending. There's not going to be a sequel to Tron: Legacy and I doubt the KH series is even allowed to write its own ending to the story. Even if it were, I don't give the series enough credit to expect it would do something clever with the concept of there being two Trons like a crossover between old-school Tron and new Tron. Even seeing old-school Tron from II again is probably a no-go now that the series has written itself into a corner by following the Tron Legacy stuff and that sucks because he was one of the best Party members from II and his dynamic with Sora and friends was endearing.

Christ, there are so many different ways I hate the plot of Dream Drop Distance. To quote Lindsay Ellis, it's like a layercake of lameness. You peel back one layer and there's a completely different kind of lame underneath it.

edited 18th Dec '17 10:59:00 AM by DrDougsh

Space Paranoids was definitely the best integrated world in KHII.

Timeless River was also a ball. I wish it had a return trip.

There's a lot of potential in a return trip to Timeless River. Lots of cartoons they could pay homage to. It could even provide an opportunity to involve Oswald the Lucky Rabbit.

He's gloating. Same reason Xehanort goes on about how Symphony of Sorcery is "almost like a dream". They've got Sora off his intended route and heading towards their stronghold, and they're the kind of assholes to gloat about it.

edit:

Not that I want to get into a discussion about the merits of 3D. I'm aware that I'm so far off the general consensus that I can't see the shore.

edited 18th Dec '17 8:55:00 PM by Enlong

I mean, that wouldn't amount to gloating so much as just feeding Sora (and by extention, the player) misinformation in order to fuck with him. Effectively weaponising the series' Word Salad Philosophy for the sake of trolling.

edited 19th Dec '17 1:23:09 AM by DrDougsh

3D did seem to set out to subvert a bunch of the series' conventions, but I think it rather screwed the landing.

I don't think I follow, but ok.

edited 19th Dec '17 4:16:56 AM by Enlong

From my understanding, he's saying that Kingdom Hearts USUALLY gives exposition in the same way so its hard to tell what's true and what's not if he's just fucking with us. At this point in the series, if someone throws that large of a wrench into the mix, we're going to get confused because of EVERYTHING being confusing as it is.

I miss Billy Zane. Nobody else can capture the darkness in his voice. Why can't they get him back?

edited 19th Dec '17 5:00:46 PM by Soble

Man, now I wish Disney kept Power Rangers so we could have a Megazord as a summon.

So we don't have to SUBMIT again.

> Why can't they get him back?

apparently he was in a film that was considered 'anti american' playing the role of a solider and Disney was'nt comfortable casting him again,or something

i like 3D

that's all i really have to add. it's not perfect, and in fact it's horribly flawed. but i enjoyed it.

...I hate politics.

Yeah, he appeared in a Turkish(?) anti-American propaganda film and his career went down the drain from what I recall.

edited 19th Dec '17 6:00:57 PM by HamburgerTime

Apparently the movie was also vaguely anti-Semitic.

As for 3D, I would love for its Traverse Town design to come back but more populated. It was great.

edited 19th Dec '17 6:02:33 PM by LordVatek

At this point, he's been gone so long that I'm mostly over it.

That's a weird way for Billy Zane's career to end.

Well, not end. Become a Heartless? A Nobody? I guess.

I'm saying that simply dismissing it as "gloating" isn't enough to explain Young Xehanort's line or what it's supposed to mean. If we're meant to infer that YX is simply lying about the Grid not being a dream in order to fuck with Sora... well, why? Why would he say that? Unless I'm missing something, nothing else Xemnas, Young Xehanort or Ansem say to the heroes during the game is an outright lie. It's often cryptic and misleading, but I can't remember them just making stuff up. And if we're meant to infer that this particular line — about the Grid not being a dream — is a lie, then from a writing standpoint what was the point of putting it in there? The line serves no purpose other than to muddy the waters of a plot premise that's already on pretty shaky ground. It's as if the writers were deliberately trying to have the game's story make as little sense as possible.

By the way, is it even worth asking how, by the game's logic, Sora, and especially the Organization members, got into the Grid to begin with? I mean, regardless of whether it's part of a Sleeping world or not, the Grid is just a virtual system in Flynn's computer, not a real "world". Logically, Sora should have to enter it via a computer within the world that contains it. I realize having Sora visit the computer in the "outside world" from the movie before entering the Grid would have been a pace-breaker, but they could have just done what KHII did and put the entrance to the Grid inside another world, like Traverse Town. This might be something of a petty complaint, and it would have required the developers to put more — as in, some — thought into the world's implementation, but really... II's Space Paranoids was well integrated and made far more sense, so why should it be too much to ask of 3D to put in the same effort?

edited 19th Dec '17 11:45:53 PM by DrDougsh

Oh. I was mostly thinking about Xemnas's line. I guess that's where our disconnect happened. My bad; shouldn't have mentioned YX to begin with.

Never mind. I should've kept quiet; I'm not the right person to talk about this anyway.

edited 20th Dec '17 8:51:48 AM by Enlong

Since it's been pretty quiet the past few days, and I've been on a sort of Kingdom Hearts binge-watch, who do you think are going to be summons for Kingdom Hearts 3?