Fallout: New Vegas

Hey, Xiph, don't beat yourself up. My Ultimate edition is on disk but it takes a long assed time to install. Much less time than a straight install from Steam but still long assed.

Playing the Warzones mod at the moment. Boy, howdy, they ain't kidding. The loot is phenomenal, and so is the challenge. Fiend Bosses with more hp than the Legendary Deathclaw and Lanius combined. And Combat Armor Reinforced Mk 2 protection on top of that.

edited 7th Oct '12 12:51:57 AM by TamH70

I got a bit of an odd glitch. After turning in the NCR Boomers quest and getting the quest to deal with the Kings, an NCR MP approached me inside the embassy, told me that I should have paid my dues and that said that since we weren't in the Strip, there is nothing to stop him from killing me. My companions blew his head off in seconds. I did not gain infamy of any kind and the NCR inside and around the embassy are not hostile.

My rep with the NCR is Idolized. Although I have done a bit of House and Yes Man's questlines (I'm planning on going independent), but Don't Tread on the Bear is not active yet. Anyone know what the hell happened?

Nope. One of the rarer glitches I think. Have you tried reloading an earlier save and see if it happens again?

I've had that happen to me before. On the Strip. In the NCR Embassy. While I was idolized. Boone went batshit and killed the whole city.

I had to reload a save 5 levels back.

edited 7th Oct '12 9:34:49 PM by CPFMfan

...

Just pass it off as some dipshit trying to extort you if it didn't affect anything else.

Unrelated, but I finally recall where I first remember seeing/hearing the phrase "any damned fool can be uncomfortable": The Salvation War. I know it's older than that, but that's definitely where I first encountered it. That said, the phrase in quotation marks turns up rather few hits in Google, including this very thread.

edited 7th Oct '12 9:46:22 PM by Balmung

In another unrelated subject, I wish that Honest Hearts actually had the Legion as the main antagonists instead of just Legion proxies. The White Legs basically exist because they didn't want to program a path where you side with the villains or make a Legion-aligned character fight the Legion.

...

But then they'd have to release an NCR or House DLC or have the NCR/House play a role in HH, which would just make it New Vegas lite. Introducing a new faction and merely give them ties to an existing faction helps worldbuilding.

edited 7th Oct '12 9:56:24 PM by Spirit

#IceBearForPresident

Why? Lonesome Road makes it clear that the Legion wasn't only sending forces into the Mojave. Why wouldn't they be assimilating a few more random tribes and destroying peaceful communities out of spite? And why wouldn't these random tribes happen to have Joshua Graham among them? Furthermore, why would the NCR or House care about that when there's a war going on?

Plus, it raises a few questions, like: why is Caesar so absurdly picky when it comes to the White Legs (who are heavily armed and want to join the Legion) when he's annexed much less useful tribes by force in the past? Why did Caesar let the White Legs have machine guns whereas his men just get bolt action rifles and knives? Why did Caesar have them destroy towns that would be ripe for assimilation? How are the Dead Horses and Sorrows a match for them when they've already butchered about a dozen other tribes?

edited 7th Oct '12 10:06:25 PM by CPFMfan

...

Well, first off, Sallow isn't necessarily the sharpest tool in the shed, and he's pissy about the whole "Joshua, y u no die" thing. Gameplay and Story Segregation? (Assume their actual forces to be equal to what they'd have if you entered HH at the minimum recommended level and the fancy toys are just so the player has something of a challenge.) And I'm guessing that the Dead Horses are the first opponents that the White Legs have met that have guns, plus Graham, and they've probably got better tactics or something. The Sorrows are merely not yet overrun, and without the Courier's help, would probably eventually get run down and killed off, plus they may well be substantially more numerous than the White Legs.

I guess he got picky because he's now got a large army under him, whereas before he kinda had to recruit everyone. More likely than not the White Legs would have to abandon their guns if they join the Legion, so what gear they had before is meaningless.

#IceBearForPresident

Also, consider how much the White Legs' forces are bolstered by the women in them, so right there, you have to write off half of their forces upon admission to the Legion.

He won't admit a huge force of heavily armed warriors who are already fanatically loyal to him, but he will forcibly assimilate a small village of worthless drug dealers? Also, the New Canaanites had guns. In-story, the White Legs are heavily armed. Not as ridiculously overarmed as they are if you go in there at a high level, but still their mid-level equipment (which they have in-story, like their .45 machine guns) is high quality stuff compared to what the elites of the Legion use.

Why would they have to abandon their guns when almost everyone in the Legion uses a gun? If anything the White Legs are more melee-centric.

Even at half strength, the White Legs would still be useful.

edited 7th Oct '12 10:26:57 PM by CPFMfan

...

Unless every White Leg becomes a centurion, praetorian, or what have you then most will have to trade their AM rifles for machetes.

#IceBearForPresident

In-story, they probably don't have anti-tank rifles. But they would have things like .45 auto submachine guns, plus homemade melee weapons (mantis gauntlets, tomahawks, hatchets) and bombs (molotov cocktails, powder charges), which is not unreasonable for Veteran or Prime legionaries to carry. Not to mention many of their mid-level firearms are the same things used by the Primes and Veterans- Hunting Rifles, .44 Revolvers, 9mm submachine guns, etc.

Where do you get that they'd have to trade in their weapons for machetes when normal legionaries use similar equipment? Even if they didn't, where is it stated that legionaries have to throw away their machine guns and charge firearm-wielding opponents with sticks? It's made pretty clear that the Legion is pragmatic enough to use scavenged weapons.

edited 7th Oct '12 10:30:39 PM by CPFMfan

...

Come to think of it does Caesar even know the White Legs exist? I mean the whole "kill Graham to join the Legion" thing could be just Ulysses.

#IceBearForPresident

Seems in-character for Caesar to want to destroy New Canaan. What motivation would Ulysses have to do it?

edited 7th Oct '12 10:38:10 PM by CPFMfan

...

The Khans' initiation rituals have made their members more durable than most tribals. That probably makes them more useful as potential Legionairies than the White Legs, whose main strength is having powerful weapons that a Frumentarius found for them.

The White Legs are also much more numerous and are arguably tougher due to the harsh environments they brave. It probably says something that half of their fighters are melee berserkers whereas all Khans use firearms, and that the firearms used by the White Legs are of equal or better quality than the ones used by the Khans.

Either way, the White Legs are several times more useful. Being 'tough' doesn't matter much when the other guy has a Tommy Gun and you have a dinky little 9mm SMG.

edited 7th Oct '12 10:42:17 PM by CPFMfan

...

Except the White Legs being tougher than the Khans is just speculation on your part. It is explicitly stated that the Khans initiation rituals make their members more durable than most.

Again, most Legionares aren't allowed to use firearms. So the weapons used by a particular tribe are irrelevant in Caesar's decision as to who he is willing to absorb.

edited 7th Oct '12 10:45:19 PM by lrrose

Once again, that matters for precisely nothing and doesn't explain why the worthless Khans- who are in-story a small and isolated organization of the all the types the Legion hates- are worth assimilating whereas the White Legs, who are a large, heavily armed group begging to join, are turned away.

Again, most legionaries do use firearms and it's stated that most of these firearms are scavenged. It's never stated that they're not allowed to use guns.

edited 7th Oct '12 10:46:54 PM by CPFMfan

...

The Khans:

• Hate NCR and have experience raiding NCR caravans.

• Are stronger than most.

• Can assist the Legion on their current front line.

• On the flip side, there aren't too many of them left, and they are chem users and producers.

The White Legs:

• Have powerful weapons, but only because a Legion Frumentarius found them for them.

• Are a large tribe.

• On the flip side, they know that Joshua Graham did not die at the Grand Canyon.

Also, Caesar still seems to believe in the Followers' mission of using the knowledge of the past to make the wasteland a better place. It wouldn't surprise me if the fact that the Followers once tried to help the Khans would make him inclined to not completely destroy them.

edited 7th Oct '12 10:53:51 PM by lrrose

The White Legs are worth more in every way excepting their geographic location. I just don't know why Caesar will just randomly enslave completely worthless tribes just to be a dick, but when a heavily armed tribe of warriors who worships him comes begging for him to enslave them, he says "nope".

You also forgot to list some other factors: the White Legs are either tougher or more willing to throw themselves at machine guns, if all their melee fighters are any indication. The White Legs already worship Caesar as a God, whereas the Khans don't. The White Legs are trained in total war, whereas the Khans just know how to raid and bully unarmed civilians. The White Legs have already ravaged a large portion of Utah and wiped out resistance for the Legion, whereas all the Khans have done since the Legion contact is sit in the mountains and sell drugs.

You also have to consider that, if the Legion somehow beats Hoover Dam, there'll be almost no Khans left after.

edited 7th Oct '12 10:56:26 PM by CPFMfan

...

I think a lot of it goes back to Sallow's whole "Joshua, y u no die" issue. They failed AND they know for a fact that the Burned Man lives, while in the Legion, he is Unpersoned.

The Khans haven't failed him so far (though they haven't done much of anything) and know little to nothing of Graham's survival. On top of that, Caesar seems to see the Khans as strong, probably due to their generations old warrior culture, whereas the White Legs are glorified raiders. The Legion might do a lot of raiding, but so far as I can tell, they ARE self-sufficient, whereas the White Legs know nothing of making their own stuff and instead steal or find everything they use. The Khans, by comparison, know agriculture, basic manufacturing (at least enough to craft their own machetes, I'm sure, as well as likely basic weapon maintenance), and other things. The Khans aren't just meat for the grinder and baby factories, they can also be farmers or blacksmiths with less work than it'd take to train the White Legs to do the same.

edited 7th Oct '12 11:53:22 PM by Balmung

That and the Khans have been a thorn in the NCR's side for a century and a half. Considering how Caesar desperately wants to believe his own BS about the synthesis between NCR and Legion, he probably sees some kinship in them.

edited 7th Oct '12 11:56:01 PM by Spirit

#IceBearForPresident

So I killed a couple of Fiends and Feral Ghouls.

Suddenly my karma has gone from Very Evil to Good.

Game = broken.

Edit: Why does the Assault Carbine use 5mm ammo? It's impossible to find anywhere. :(

edited 8th Oct '12 1:37:33 AM by Medicus

It's not over. Not yet.