BlazBlue: General thread.

Japanese twitter is usually where all the action is, but yea I glanced around for Athena and haven't been too successful :<

I only like Hazama/Yuuki Terumi. Everyone else is boring, stupid or both.

I like to think most Hazama/Terumi fans are the king of edgelords.

@Yakuzu: Edgelord, huh? Are we talking "tryhard" edge or "OW THE EDGE"?

@KAISER: Yeah, you're really going to have to explain that one. I don't deny that there are people who like Hazama, but a fair number of us have a low opinion of him. That, and the instant you said that everyone else is boring and/or stupid... well, let's just leave it at "them's fightin' words".

Hmmm, the "I fucking hate this world" type of edge.

I'm curious too, its been a while since we've had some real discussion here.

edited 14th Mar '15 4:11:43 PM by BlackYakuzu94

I'm surprised Terumi is still really popular after CP tbh, he had like zero presence. Not to say screentime makes a character, but it's rather jarring how charismatic he seemed in the last game only to become kinda....just there.

If his lack of presence in CP was to show he was only an effective villain due to using "time-loops" as a safety net, they didn't effectively convey that by giving him a satisfying "defeat". I'm just kinda rambling though, hopefully they'll fix my issues with him in the final game.

And uh going by past releases, shouldn't we have a new game in the arcades by next winter?

CP kind of killed the presence of a lot of characters, but we've been over that already.

It's more of CP trying its damnedest to push Izanami as the main threat, really. Outside of that, we've already seen that Terumi still has more than enough Good Writing Devices to bs his way through most of the game's story.

Up until an entirely different Good Writing Device piped him up, anyway, but I highly doubt anybody here is convinced that's going to last.

@ Demonfly: You owe me two Sarcasm Detectors for your use of "Good Writing Device".

@ Yakuzu: So basically "OW THE EDGE" up a couple orders of magnitude.

Anyway, I wrote a topic on Game FA Qs on the problems I see in some of the female members of the cast, both to start intellectual debate and to try to instill some sense of decency, but the topic was derailed pretty much the instant I was done. It got back on track for an impromptu debate on Tsubaki, and one of the commentators applied some thoughts to the other girls, after which the topic died down. I could forward some of that here, if you guys want something to discuss while waiting for heliosKAISER to get back to us (if he does).

sure

You asked for it, Yakuzu.

I am the bone of my speech
Letters are my body, punctuation my blood
I have created over a thousand lectures
None known to death, nor known to life
Have faced trolling to create many essays
Yet, those hands will never write anything
So as I pray... unlimited text works!

My observations
Noel: The biggest problem I see with Noel is how unwilling she is to assert herself and her own identity. We have seen how Noel always recoils when Jin degrades her, but even then she is more content to go with the flow others cause than make waves herself, only doing so when she doesn't have a choice in the matter or when she is incensed into doing so. She may agree to what others say, but the problem is that she does so too readily, which can cause problems. A perfect example is when Nu attempted to forcibly merge and acquire the permissions granted to the Successor to the Azure - Noel simply accepted the girl before her as herself and just gave the permissions away rather than try to assert herself and reject the image (you'd think the white hair is a dead giveaway). Noel is also too easily driven into following her emotions without thinking for herself - the above problem notwithstanding, she all too readily succumbed to rage when she learned that Terumi set her and Tsubaki against each other instead of doing the sensible thing and seeking out reinforcements (if "Try and stay away from Captain Hazama" isn't an obvious enough warning, I don't know what to tell you). If Noel intends to be of any help to Ragna, she needs to address these problems immediately. "You felt like you were lacking something, so you wanted to be loved by others... you've been waiting for someone to take care of you... how pathetic."

Rachel: Speaking of that quote, Rachel has made some effort to clear up the vagueness of her messages, but there are times she still has trouble getting the point across. She has done what she could with the first of two problems that contribute to her inability to communicate - that being overcoming the lack of experience regarding command that being locked into a ceaseless time loop evokes. The other problem is her elevated sense of self-worth and how she treats the lion's share of the cast with indifference and disdain, and while she has little faith that the protagonists can solve the problems of the world, she needs to remember that they can't go about doing her work because they don't know what she does. She has proven capable of understanding others, given how she interacts with Valkenhayn, Hakumen and, oddly enough, Makoto, which brings her request to Tsubaki into question - is she expecting a third option from someone who only thinks in black and white, or does she truly believe Ragna is that far gone?

Taokaka: I pity Taokaka. I truly do. Characters can do well as comic relief and still have relevance to the plot, and Taokaka had such potential from day one; to be shafted of all of it and role-locked as the comic relief is just tragic. However, what I can say is that I can understand why she was role-locked, and that's because she doesn't think. At all. Either that or she chooses not to think, which in my opinion is even worse. Instinct can only get one so far, and once that threshold is reached Taokaka needs to retain and utilize what she learns. I acknowledge that she can sense Izanami's presence, and that the only other person who can is a noncombatant, but unless Tao can actually wisen up - preferably before the group runs into Izanami again or someone else figures out how to track her down - Ragna is going to see firsthand Tao's trip to the fridge, and it will break his heart.

Litchi: I can understand the tragedy that is Litchi Faye-Ling's existence - someone close to her has been pulled into the void, and her Orphean journey to save him is having consequences on her own being. Her problem can be boiled down to a single adage: "The more you place your faith in one thing, the farther it has to fall." She may in fact be oblivious to the truth that Kokonoe is observing him, and thus unaware of the strain that her former mentor is undergoing, but there are people beyond Roy who matter to her, and she should think to devote herself to them as well as to Roy. There's also the trust issue with those around her - Kokonoe and Rachel may believe her problem to not be worth their attention, but even if they cannot help her, Litchi needs to open up and confide in others. She may have time to save Carl from his own madness, whether Relius' surrender is a ruse or not, but once she's done she needs to open up and let others know what she's going through - preferably before the problem grows beyond her limited ability to control it.

Tsubaki: A deeply troubled girl, this one. Tsubaki is the product of incest and grew up in a proverbial ivory tower, with only Jin to keep her company, and all her problems are a direct result of all of this. But if you think she can't fix her problems herself, you'd be sorely mistaken. Time with Makoto, Noel and Jin may help ease away her malignant obsession with Jin, but that's not her biggest problem. The problem that may be her biggest obstacle is that she only sees things in black and white, and always seeks to justify things towards the extremities - all the principles she was raised on are seen as good, while things that run contrary are bad. Jin's battle with her in Chronophantasma Ep14 may have been the finishing touch to shatter Mind Eater, but Makoto's "erratic" behavior should have been a warning sign throughout. One of Tsubaki's closest friends (a) spoke poorly of her back-then future boss, (b) gave her (falsified) orders that ran contrary to the Imperator's (which may also have been falsified), (c) brought the judgment of the Library's armed forces and the Imperator's judgment under direct question (to be fair on this point, Tsubaki was high on Mind Eater at the time), and (d) entrusted their mutual best friend to the hands of the SS-class criminal himself. Before Tsubaki should have thought to declare Ragna the source of the world's evil (and before she can act on it still in the future), she needed to ask herself a very simple question... or, as Mr. Enter called it, a single simple word. That word is "why". Why would Makoto still behave as Tsubaki's closest friend and yet do things that run contrary to her morality? Why would Noel cooperate with the man branded the biggest and baddest threat to the NOL? Why would both of them (and Jin, too) willingly side with the antithesis to the NOL, the very organization that opposes the Library, just to save her? Tsubaki needs to answer this question before she can be of use to Jin, and not a moment sooner.

Makoto: Makoto is pretty much Tsubaki and Noel's mutual antimatter when it comes to personal problems. Unlike the lion's share of characters, she has herself figured out, and yet I'd be lying if I said she didn't have issues. Her problem is that she is subconsciously suspicious of those around her, willing to take problems into her own hands rather than observe and figure out a solution before diving off the deep end. However, the problem is both mitigated and unsolvable at the same time; it's mitigated in that, so long as she understands everything about the problem that she can, she can find her own way out of said problem, even if it amounts to cutting her losses and running. What makes it unsolvable is that the source of her problem - that the people around her only care about what she is and not who she is, and hate her for that exact reason - is not something you can remedy by yourself, much less by expunging the right villain. Rather, Makoto's issues are directly linked to the world itself; who's to say the world will enjoy peace once Izanami and the Embryo are neutralized? Given the way everything's set up and how the Sector Seven committee released Azrael despite the threat he posed, it's likely the world will tear itself apart all over again instead unless something is done while they're still somewhat united. Makoto is more fixated upon helping others with their problems because of a single truth: she cannot fix her underlying problems herself, neither the NOL nor Sector Seven will act to fix it so long as they don't recognize it as a problem, and anything she can potentially do to force them to recognize it is just as likely to backfire at the very least. And until one of these constraints is undone, there will be no solving it. If Kagura has any sympathy towards Makoto that he does not share with any other woman, he needs to open their eyes... fast.

Platinum: In my eyes, Platinum is the most insufferable of the protagonists, bar none. The only traits about her to be seen as redeemable belong to Trinity, who has done everything she can to overcome her problems, even when they killed her in the end. It's the other two that are the source of Platinum's ills. Sena is a wet noodle through and through, and while he tries to be rational, he doesn't act more to correct the problems Luna brings upon both of them. Luna, on the other hand, is much, much worse. A girl her age should not be whining about traits she's too young to develop, she constantly acts like she's more important than other pressing matters, and she antagonizes people she has no business pissing off. How Jubei kept his belt around his waist the whole time he was raising her is something I cannot comprehend, and Litchi has my respect for being the bigger woman in the one way that matters and talking her down. Given Trinity's fate, I have to wonder which of these two punks manages to climb back to the mortal coil. If Sena survives, he needs to grow a spine; if Luna survives, she needs to grow a pair in the proverbial sense. If neither survive, then I hope they go to Purgatorio together - I don't think they deserve death, let alone being dragged to hell by Hazama for sins neither committed.

Bullet: I may speak ill of Bullet from time to time, but I don't hate her like I do Platinum, and the anger I do have relates to how her fan-zealots blow things about her out of proportion. The fact that so little is explained about her doesn't help her case with me, which puts her in the same boat as Azrael. Amongst her core problems are her abrasive nature and her impatience regarding what she wants (to be fair, she berates herself over this very issue at one point), which tends to lead to violence more often than not. Also, if her behavior around Amane is any indication, she needs to learn how to let go of needless grudges - all that pent-up resentment is going to blow up in her face sooner or later. I get that she lost her squad while she was on the bench and has no answers regarding their fate, but given how she conducts herself, especially in contrast with how Mori wanted to portray her, Bang has every reason to ask why she isn't in jail. Mori has plans to expand upon her in Extend; I hope for Bullet's sake that he doesn't bugger this one up.

Kokonoe: Hoo boy. I get that Kokonoe's seen some shit, and that she's no spring chicken either, but boy does she have issues. We already spoke about Litchi, but Kokonoe's big problem is "My way or the highway" to put it short. She gives off the impression that she wants people to do what she wants them to do and just take her word for it. Whereas Rachel hits stumbling blocks when trying to communicate, Kokonoe's typical response to being forced to explain can be summed up as "Tager". I honestly have to wonder who she thinks she's helping this way, which leads to the next point and arguably the most ironic. For all the measures she's taken and the extent she'd go for her goals, the question now is how much like Terumi she's going to become in order to make certain he stays in the ground... and how much that would undermine everything she wants to accomplish. Best advice I can give her: soften up and let the others know what they need - or want - to know.

Celica: We know so little about Celica, and yet I can still see her biggest problem amidst all the cute little "flaws". It's not that she's a noncombatant, that she has no sense of direction, or any of the other little things. Her big problem is that she is utterly oblivious to the consequences of the actions she wishes to commit herself to. Makoto may rush into things, but she still tries to have a plan and mitigate the risk she invokes; Celica hasn't done any of that even after Bloodedge gave his life to save her world. Given the emotional and psychological investment others have made for her, she needs to get some patience and foresight in her thick skull lest she foolishly annihilate a crucial obstacle between Izanami and the world's ruin: herself. With Doomsday having passed and good help hard to find, every life counts more than ever, even hers.

(My apologies - you're going to have to visit the topic to see the Tsubaki debate. It's a lot for this board to stomach.)

Fatestaykitchen's observations (not Tsubaki)
Noel: She's a scaredy cat, plain and simple. Scared and lazy. I think her deadly sin would be sloth. She's scared and to think most of all. Scared to go against the flow, scared to consider things on her own, scared to provoke people, scared to let go, scared of being rejected, scared of making tough decisions, scared of failure. She will always take the most comfortable path. She will follow her emotions or what people say, or suggestions or programming or anything. She just does whatever she thinks the situation or other people want. That's why I say lazy. She does sometimes put her foot down but that's only when she's left no other choice. I guess she doesn't feel equipped to make her own decisions.

Makoto: She mostly has herself together. Actually she's one of the most "realistic" characters in the game in the sense that she behaves the most like a normal person. Her mistrust and cynicism can be as beneficial as it is problematic. She's wary and cautious because that's what you need to be. She takes matters into her own hands prematurely because in the end she may love her friends and care for her friends but she has to rely pretty much on herself. That's why she's a member of intelligence AND a double agent and why she is admittedly "waiting for the other show to drop" with her friends. Security. Security is the main concern. She needs to feel secure and she trusts herself to have most things figured out, which makes her pre judge others, like how she couldn't accept an aspect of Tsubaki that didn't fit the image in her head. She's basically always looking over her shoulder and waiting for a chance to bolt...like a squirrel. She NEEDS to know everything because she doesn't feel secure otherwise and she's smart enough to keep a good grasp on the situation. She expects the worst, so she'll act preemptively to prevent the worst from happening or just plan to deal with it with the least amount of damage like how she acted in school, preemptively acting as if she had already been condemned so that she isn't hurt or disappointed when it inevitably happens. Not to say she'll prioritize herself over her friends or that she'll betray them or abandon them. She holds what is important to her very dear. She just jumps the gun sometimes because she's on guard all the time. When she does trust something she'll be hurt to learn that she was right, but she's understanding, she's able to roll with the punches and she can forgive, I mean they were going to hurt her anyway right?

Rachel: her biggest problem is her vantage point. She sees too much for too log from too high a position. She can never really say everything and just act on her impulses because she has too much power and responsibility. She's seen enough loops for her to be sick of everyone's shit and to know firsthand just how wrong things can go. The loneliness she feels also sours her. She can't do everything for everyone so she tries to "push" people instead of outright telling them, because that would just be irresponsible and they need to have a chance o grow. She has to carefully weigh her every action and word. Basically she looks down on others as a god so all her actions are filtered through that high vantage point. To her everyone else is like a child and she has to be careful how she handles them. She manipulates people no matter what, because she's always seeing the bigger picture. She can be forceful and condescending because she always sees and knows more than you. She's also intentionally and unintentionally rough, partially for her own amusement, partially because she actually has a temper, which she indulges herself in. She's doing her best.

Litchi: She needs to get a new boyfriend, seriously. She's too desperate and so consumed with guilt and responsibility and just an unwillingness to let go despite knowing that she should, that she just just doesn't care how much she has to roll in the dirt and how stupid she looks doing it, and how useless it is to keep doing it. She doesn't even care if it's real anymore, even if she actually does care and she's aware that she's fooling herself. She's not doing this for her or his sake, she's just doing it because she doesn't know what else to do. Stuck in a rut, plain and simple. She'll get herself together eventually and when she does she'll find that there are people who care about her and people she cares about.

Tao: Hasn't had to learn to take things seriously yet. She'll learn responsibility at some point, probably after something really bad happens. It'll be the time when just doing whatever no longer serves her and she'll be forced to make a choice. She's also extremely selfish. I think it's going to cost her big. I expect the elder and torakaka to die unfortunately.

Luna: a brat. She needs a spanking. That is all.

Trinity: Too nice. Too soft. the world isn't nice and soft no matter how much she would like it to be. It usually results in you doing stupid things and screwing yourself over. She just couldn't handle someone who was legitimately fucked up in the head.

Bullet: just awkward and she has no emotional control. Doesn't know how to speak or negotiate. Very uptight. too impatient. Doesn't know how to handle things not going her way. She just needs to learn. It'll come naturally just by talking to someone, anyone really. She's a nice girl.

Kokonoe: It basically comes down to being a tsundere and being too smart for her own good. She has too much knowledge and resources and she knows that in a lot of cases her decisions are the best course of action. She has too many..."options" like nukes and impossible barriers but deep down she still cares a lot about people and she wants to help. She wants to be cold and logical but she's too much of a good person to fully go through with it. Like all tsunderes, she's dishonest about her feelings(even to herself), impatient, and impulsive to handle people with care...even if sometimes she thinks she's doing just that in her own way. She keeps people at a distance for what she thinks is their own good, and she keeps them in the dark and uses either coercion or other underhanded means because she wants to take on all the burdens herself and because she knows she's the only one smart enough to go through with it. She has the determination to do whatever it takes and "pay the bill" when everything is all over, but she doesn't really want to do that. She sees caring and sentimentality as a weakness but she can't stop herself from feeling them. She struggles under the weight of her own guilt while trying to pretend like she's okay with everything. She just needs to open up to someone. The only person she relies on is Tager but it's mostly as a tool, which makes her guilty because she cares about him and feels responsible for everything. Perhaps if she can forgive her father for not saving her mother, that would be a starting point.

I hope that helps. I chose not to elaborate on lesser-known characters or clear villainesses, since we can't say anything about the former and the latter don't care about their problems. If anyone wants to express their view on the boys as well, then by all means, feel free. I have places to be tomorrow, so don't expect a swift response.

edited 15th Mar '15 10:54:37 PM by CerotechOmega

Pretty fun read.

Also on Tsubaki because hey I like talking about her(also wow, do I even wanna know what they're saying if you're not posting the other person's commentary lol). I question the "malignant obsession with Jin" part, when was it ever "malignant" besides when she was clearly made to be mentally unstable in CS or CP? If you're talkin' about the drama cd concerning her being upset at Saya, you're ignoring the context of her being mentally and physically assaulted beforehand. Her inferiority complex(which is what she's stated in have in her library bio iirc), lack of self worth, and desire for power are what allowed her to be manipulated, not purely Jin. It's like yeah she can get crazy about things, but it's obvious whenever she is she's not completely herself(which games always use to excuse a character). Not to say she doesn't have serious issues, I just feel like they're always taken out of context.

I also feel like the explanation for Tsubaki's upbringing is wrong, to describe it as an "ivory tower" makes it seem like her family's different and toxic as fuck beliefs weren't the things that messed up her mental health, and it also makes it seem like she's unfamiliar with middle and lower class problems(which she proved to know about when she addressed the Racism in the Academy). Idk what definition of ivory tower you're using tho. Also she never only hung around with Jin, she mentioned having other friends growing up.

Also people need to chill on Luna. She's like 12, of course she's gonna act like a brat, and she probably has no proper parent. And hey, she's not allowed to lament she's not physically developed only because it's not possible at her age? People have self esteem issues no matter how young.

edited 16th Mar '15 1:36:38 AM by Marona

So Cero, would you consider these flaws in the sense that they're proper character flaws that enrich them, or poor writing flaws that bring the characters down?

I can understand why Luna is like that. The problem I have with her, and why I hate her, is because despite all that, it doesn't change that she's a shrieking, obnoxious, one note pain in the ass who just there for a very narrow, unfunny gag, and the fact that she has a spineless pile of ectoplasm as an enabler just rubs salt into the wound.

Twas a good read, that I'll have to finish later sadly.

You mind doing one for the rest of the cast?

Lambda wasn't on the list, therefore Lambda is perfect.

Jokes aside, good read.

More like a non-entity moe blob :V

edited 16th Mar '15 3:14:25 PM by SiennaCiShan

Ooooooohhhhhhh

Welp, at least I have an excuse to laugh at this series again.

Ewww, they stuck with fucking awful CP Bang.

Hopefully, his throat cancer has gone into remission.

Fucking finally.

Surprised they even dubbed it, guess they need any money they can get.

I don't see why it wouldn't be dubbed; while most of the fanbase itself may hate it (for all kinds of reasons), it can still easily gain the attention of those who are still idly curious about the series, and it already has a proven fanbase overseas as it is. Same with that one Disgaea adaptation to an extent.

It is pleasantly surprising that they went out of their way to grab CP's cast for it, though.

edited 16th Mar '15 7:25:05 PM by Demonfly

The thing is, its a pretty poor representation for anyone to jump into the series. It condenses the plot of the first game and ignores so many plot points from the second. I'd wager the fanbase likes it more than the general audience due to the So Bad, It's Good nature of it.

Like, if I wasn't already a fan, I'd be scratching my head at all of the shit going on lol. But hey, its pretty cool they got nearly everyone to reprise their roles.