The Wheel of Time

They're all based on his wife, apparently.

"Doctor Who means never having to say you're kidding." - Bocaj

A lot of them are based on mythological figures as well.

Like, the whole court of Andor is basically based on Arthurian myth. Moiraine can refer to Moirae, one of the Fates, as well as Merlin (sharing that archetype with Thom Merrilin,) or a Slavic goddess I'm not familiar with. Nynaeve is a reference to Nimuë, Merlin's apprentice, in name and role in the story if not necessarily in temperament.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.

Well, finished A Crown of Swords. More padding than not, a rushed climax and I cannot believe the Bowl of the Winds subplot is still going. At least Nynaeve got over her block and got with Lan. Hopefully she'll kick some more ass next book. It'll be a while before I get around to reading it, though.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

The next book is only the second worst book in the series because Crossroads of Twilight exists.

It's because Mat isn't in it.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.

The next two books are pretty dull apart from the endings. Crossroads of Twilight has no redeeming factors. Nothing gets resolved and very little happens.

edited 6th Nov '14 9:15:01 AM by JimmyTMalice

"Steel wins battles. Gold wins wars."

While not the strongest in the series, Crossroads still gave us the much needed Tuon/Mat relationship and development.

Also, Crown is personally one of my favorites. A lot of importance happens in the book and we get a really good slice of parallel construction of plots still linked together. Also, Mat is at a comedic height not attained anywhere else in the series especially after Sanderson's crap starts.

"You are never taller then when standing up for yourself"

Winter's Heart is pretty great overall, imo, not just the stonking great climax.

edited 6th Nov '14 10:29:17 AM by math792d

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.

We musy have different senses of humor.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

Back to the culture superiority thing, I guess it depends a lot on the reader. I loved the Aiel and thought they were awesome yet I absolutely hated the Adem. I would say its because I felt the Aiel beat you over the head less with their superiority. They have respect for certain Wetlanders like Lan and for the most part only consider themselves to be better fighters. They don't even harp on the other characters for not following Ji'e'toh. They consider Wetlanders to be crazy but not really inferior. Or at least, that was the impression I got from the text.

And lets be fair, they have pretty good reason to consider themselves better fighters.

Birthright: an original web novel about Dragons, the Burdens of Leadership, and Mangoes.

Exactly.

My problem with the Aiel is that they were incredibly myopic. There was a sharp dividing line in their minds between "Aiel things (things that matter)" and "not-Aiel things (things that don't matter)". The only reason they cared about Rand and the whole "war that's completely reshaping the face of the world" thing is because Rand was the subject of an Aiel prophecy as well as all the other stuff going on with him.

Basically, the Aiel had a bad case of Arrogant Kung-Fu Guy as a culture, with a dash of Tautological Templar thrown in for good measure. "The Aiel way of doing things is the only way that matters, because no other culture is worth caring about. No other culture is worth caring about because the Aiel way of doing things is the only way that matters." Shit, they had it so bad that the knowlege that the Aiel weren't always and forever a culture consisting entirely of super-duper ultra badasses was enough to cause most Aiel who discovered it to Go Mad from the Revelation. Seriously, what the fuck?

Then again, I had a lot of problems with most of the various societies, groups, and cultures in Wheel of Time. About the only ones I didn't were a) the borderlanders, b) the Two Rivers folk under Perrin's rule, at least, and c) ...uh, give me a while, I'm sure I can think of a third one eventually. Probably. Maybe.

edited 6th Nov '14 12:54:40 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Actually, the Go Mad from the Revelation thing kinda made sense to me. I took it as not because they Hadn't always been badassess, but because Their entire culture began by breaking the sacred precepts of their original culture. Given their devotion to honour and their principles, it makes sense to me that that much of a break would be upsetting to them.

But yeah, cultural relations seem kinda like personal interactions on a macro scale. "I'm the best, fuck you, do it my way."

Andor seems nice enough for now, at least, as well as... fantasy Spain, whose name I can't recall.

Birthright: an original web novel about Dragons, the Burdens of Leadership, and Mangoes.

Was that Tear? I haven't noticed that many parallels to real life civilizations (props for that), save Andor being pretty much idealized medieval society.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

I'm confused- what's wrong with the cultures in The Wheel Of Time? I always thought one of Jordan's strongest skills was his ability to weave complex interesting diverse cultures- most of them are combination and reconfiguration of various real-world cultures, sure, but they are also each understandable in their quirks and norms if you view it through historical and anthropological standard.

"You are never taller then when standing up for yourself"

I think Tear, yeah. Tear or Illiam. Nothing about them was ever a hard parallell, but there are some small ones in terms of like, climate and clothing styles and stuff.

Birthright: an original web novel about Dragons, the Burdens of Leadership, and Mangoes.

Yeah, It would be like a Gai'shain taking up weapons. A Gai'shain doing this would have no honor.

Illiam was more Greece + Venice.

edited 6th Nov '14 1:06:13 PM by GrieverVIII

The biggest problem I had with Wheel of Time was that I found it very hard to sympathize with the vast majority of the characters and groups. Most of them had one defining trait that made them irritating to a greater or lesser degree. For most of them, it was a combination of arrogance and stubbornness — insistence that they are correct and their way of doing things is the best and everyone else just needs to listen to them to solve all the world's ills. It's not a coincidence that the handful of characters I actually liked (Perrin, Mat, Verin, Rhuarc, Lan as long as it doesn't have to do with his personal life...) have a tendency to just shut up and get on with whatever needs doing, rather than constantly trying to convince everyone else that they (and only they) know what should be happening and everyone should be listening to them (and only them).

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

So like real life.

I'm fine with WOT cultures, for the most part. Save for Ebou Dar.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

Ebou Dar has nothing on Far Madding.

What's that? I don't know if I've seen them yet.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

Independent city above Tear and Illiam. Ebou Dar has wonky marriage customs, Far Madding is the full on Matriarchy.

If you're a misanthrope, I guess? It just annoyed the hell out of me how virtually all of the Aes Sedai, for example, would go through some variation of "sit down, shut up, and do exactly what I tell you, because I am a Wise And Powerful Aes Sedai, Who Knows What's Best For Everyone" as soon as they encounter Rand for the first time? Hell, something like 75% of the conflicts in the series could have been either avoided entirely or wrapped up much more easily if the Aes Sedai weren't so completely and utterly convinced that they knew better than everyone else about everything else, forever.

Two Rivers and Andor, being "generic medieval countryside" and "generic medieval kingdom" were generally okay. The Borderlands were largely sensible, though the whole Hopeless War thing they had going on was depressing. The Aiel, Whitecloaks, Seanchan, the Aes Sedai, and most of the nations and city-states on the continent (Tear, Far Madding, Ebou Dar, etc) all had the arrogance/stubbornness combination I've already complained about. The Tinkers and the Ogier have terminal cases of "if we ignore the badness, maybe the badness will ignore us". The Black Tower and some others (the Whitecloaks, the Seanchan) were Obviously Evil. Very few of them felt like reasonable groups of people that lived in the world of the story, rather than caricatures that existed to provide obstacles for Our Heroes to overcome.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Most Wheel of Time cultures have parallels to historical cultures. Andor is Late Medieval England (somewhere during the Hundred Years' War judging from the strength of the monarchy) with Arthurian overtones. The Seanchan are a mix of the two bigger Diadochi states transported into the Middle Ages, with some superficial (visual) references to the Fatimid Caliphate of Egypt. Illian (with its large ports, canals and emphasis on trade wars) is reminiscent of Venetian culture. Cairhien, especially in the ridiculous helmet department, is based partially on Medieval France. Especially in the way that the Cairhienin and Andoran royal families have close blood ties (similar to the Plantagenet dynasty of Medieval England.)

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.