The "Serious Business" Critque Thread- Art

@Leradny: Wall of Text Ahead While I can't say if these are exactly the issues fanty had with the anatomy, I do see some things that don't look quite right. I can't tell if her leg on the right is supposed to be lifted forward or back since the lifted foot/leg is nearly the same size as the one not lifted. If it's going forward, it may also need more foreshortening. The bends on the sleeves makes it appear as though the top half of her arm is longer than the lower half. Her neck seems to be a little bit too long and the line you have on it doesn't quite fit with the way it's turned. That is, there would probably a more curved line instead of the harsh, straight one you have on it now. The face looks like it's being viewed from two different angles (the top of the face at 3/4 and the lower portion including the nose and lips from a profile view?) . Since it seems to be at a 3/4 view, you would see more of the cheeks and the mouth wouldn't go all the way to the end like that. You would also probably see some of the side of the side of the nose.This◊ is a random Google image that hopefully shows what I mean. If that doesn't help, it might be best to observe your own face in the mirror from the kind of angle you want your drawing to express. Though I have to disagree with the idea that there are too many details. It's got enough without being overly detailed and the folds on the shoulders look really nice to me. And I'm really sorry if I've written WAAAY too much.

There's no 'I' in 'threesome'.

Eh. It's not that bad, but you know even the best artists get bad reviews. Consider them, use them to improve, ignore the unreasonable.

I like the attention to detail, the linework and the eyes that give away that she's a girl.

However harsh fanty and matta have a point in the anatomy, and matta was very detailed so I'll skip that part (I think fanty meant anatomical references, like photos of people in that pose would really help you).

The "guiding the eyes" thing: I don't think that's important to this kind of drawing, but what fanty meant is that you should pick some areas of interest and make them pop out. For that the techniques involve high contrast, either light/darkness (in the noir spirit) or detail/undetail, and faces...

Eh, you got 3 critics for the price of one

@Ed The Mecha looks interesting, but confusing. Things closer, like the arm and the sword, should be lighter and/or more detailed than things further away, like the body.

Right now, with the strange shape of the arm and the same grey is hard to tell the arm from the body. Which only adds confusion about the shape of the arm and body.

The feet too, would gain from a better contrast between both of them.

edited 8th Sep '10 2:18:24 PM by uximata

So I'm trying to somehow make my comic pages presentable. I'm scanning at 300dpi but this scanner is crap compared to my previous one, so I'm not really sure if the stuff looks decent when resized. Does it?◊ Also, I think I kinda overleveled the page, but I'm not really sure how to NOT do that without having the lines stay gray...

edited 3rd Jul '11 4:06:29 AM by fanty

The scan quality ain't a thing  ^*

, but there are other problems.

First of all, here's how I read the dialog:

"Eheh, I just tore thin thing. Stom mwih time sloei need to spend bashing ot it."

IMO, teaching cursive is one of the worst mistakes the school system makes. Sure, it looks good when you practice your form constantly, but most people don't, and most cursive written by people out of practice for more than 5 years looks like chicken scratch.

Please either letter in print or in an image editing program.

Secondly, use a ruler for backgrounds. It's not "cheating," it doesn't make your art style look any "stiffer," and you don't need to "learn to draw straight lines without one." Ignore anyone who says otherwise.

Your character design is good. No issues there.

—

So here's this unfinished thing◊. It's part of a larger character design sheet.

I know his hat and face need work, the shading is incomplete, I suck at feet, and he might be a little too short.

edited 13th Sep '10 7:35:36 AM by Wheezy

Project progress: The Adroan (102k words), The Pigeon Witch, (40k). Done but in need of reworking: Yume Hime, (50k)

I don't see what's wrong with the face.

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.

-double post-

BEHOLD THE FACE OF EVIL◊

There is something...off about this face. I'm not really sure, but her face looks rather tired and sloppy.

edited 13th Sep '10 11:57:21 AM by Edmania

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.

What are those.. big gray stains on her face? And what did you do to the outer edge of her hair? You aren't editing your drawings in M Spaint, are you...?

As for the drawing itself, it would look much better if it was inked. And much more original if her face was not triangular and her nose not straight from anime. People consciously copying anime style all wound up drawing in a similar way, in a way that is not held in a particularly high regard, but I suppose it's your decision if you want to get away from it or not.

I haven't exactly copied from anime, this is just my art style which grew likely as a result of being exposed to such.

And no, I haven't edited the image other than resizing it and erasing unnecessary dots.

-lowers brightness-

I never noticed those gray stains yet.

edited 13th Sep '10 11:47:32 AM by Edmania

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.

^aww, the link doesn't seem to be working...

Here I wanted to try and submit something too. I'm not an artist at all, but I do love playing with toys. I made this for my friend who was returning home over the summer. Please don't be too hypercritical. [1]◊

edited 13th Sep '10 12:56:19 PM by Mattonymy

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.

?

My link?

Also,

I'm not really the kind of person who prefers being unique over doing what I actually like. I do tend to (kind of) avert Only Six Faces though.

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.

I have no complaints against that, except that I can't tell what that white blob towards the bottom is supposed to be.

However, drawing a serious picture with two knobs is like producing a critically acclaimed album on a little tykes tape deck, so anything bad I could say about it is cancelled out by the fact that you drew something recognizable on a fucking Etch-A-Sketch.

—

For some reason, I tend to start drawings, scan them, release them, then go back and finish them later.

Case in point: Nothing here is finished.◊ Some of it needs major work.

Also, those two drawings of (something that kind of looks like) Laurie in the middle are previously-ureleased draft sketches, so try not to look at them.

edited 15th Sep '10 2:57:51 PM by Wheezy

Project progress: The Adroan (102k words), The Pigeon Witch, (40k). Done but in need of reworking: Yume Hime, (50k)

Is my anatomy◊ here okay for stylized art or is it too far off?

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.

The first two things that stick out are "enormous head" and "short arms". Other than that, it just looks stylized.

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable

I think it's "too long legs" over "short arms" but okay.

The head size is deliberate.

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.

Ah, well, just the legs/arms issue, then. I was thinking in terms of height-preservation - you could make the legs shorter (more "cute-sized"), the arms longer (more Noodle Person), or, now that I notice it, the torso taller; or some combination of the three. (Actually, I think if you want to adjust the torso you'd want to extend the arms anyway.)

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable

The short legs/long torso thing can work. But since this is an unfinished sketch it's hard to tell what you were aiming for and what is actually a problem.

Purely personal nitpicks:

• I can't tell whether the chest is that way because of small breasts or a pointy ribcage. The broad shoulders, hairstyle, and skinny legs suggest male, though.
• The joints are all the same size, which bothers me a lot due to the arms being really short. Even with stylization, shoulders should be bigger than elbows and elbows should be bigger than wrists. And the wrists should definitely not be the same size as the knees even with slim legs.
• Again, this is an unfinished sketch and I have no idea whether you aimed for it or not, but your feet/shoes look like wood blocks and they are far too short in comparison to the legs. More like a third of the length of the shin, rather than half the length.

edited 27th Sep '10 10:08:20 AM by Leradny

It's just a rough sketch meant for the general size, but I get your point.

Also, those are shoes. I never draw anything with bare feet.

It's a male person, so I should probably fix that ribcage.

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.

So here are some character designs. From left to right: female lead, male lead, big bad, male lead's older brother, the dragon and a lawful-good guy.

Only six faces? Too generic? Too animesque? I'm sure there's more stuff I'm not noticing...

edited 3rd Jul '11 4:05:44 AM by fanty

They all have the same face structure, so there's that. The only thing to tell them apart really is the hairstyle.

I'm not sure if you're dead set on that pudgy round face look, but hey variety would help distinguish your character.

I'm not taking off my pants for a forum meme. -Nornagest

Another mecha◊ (pretty much a redesign of the first)

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.

This is totally belated, but... the scan quality is perfectly fine, fanty. The text is definitely a problem, I agree. If you want to keep it hand-written, I recommend capital print. While I personally like normal lettering with lowercase "Like this." in comics when using comp fonts, if you're hand-writing, capital print "LIKE THIS." tends to come out much neater, easier to read, and visually pleasing since the words line up better to the eye despite being hand-done.

The lines of your drawing are quite clean, dark, and expressive, and the illustrations of the page look very well, though I can't read what's going on out of context.

As for using a ruler for backgrounds, I disagree. I've read some manga and seen some books with backgrounds like that, lines ramrod straight paired with a completely unmatching style, and while there were probably other problems to compact it all, I felt that if they hand-drew the lines the style would have matched up better and given the backgrounds more character. For that page at least, I think the lines of the backgrounds are completely adequate, though trying out a ruler to see if you prefer it would hardly hurt.

- - -

Mattonymy, epic Etch-A-Sketch = Awesome.

- - -

Edmania, wouldn't worry about the legs, as people exaggerate leg heights to sometimes unimaginable degrees, even in much more realistic styles much less anime-style. But, they could be made slightly thicker, especially at the calves and knees, or the arms should the slimmed down to match.

The ear could be placed a little lower and further back; what you can do is start drawing the slight dip for the jawline when drawing profile, and around where that line ends is where the ear is typically placed. This also should improve the look of the face, make it a little less flat and formless with the jawline. If you don't know what I'm talking about, look at fanty's latest pic with her character designs, one of them has a profile view that's a good example.

Hands/arms are definitely too short. It's easy for many to underestimate the length that the actual hand gives to the arm, and the hands here seem to either only show the palm (no fingers) or a fist. Double the length of the hands, and add a bit of length to the arm/wrist. Rule of thumb, arms/hands should end about mid-thigh.

The jut of the chest seems a bit too out, and the curve of the forehead could be a bit lowered and tapered more gently, and that's all I can see. It sounds like a lot, but overall the proportions are actually decent enough; you've got an acceptable feel for the all the big important stuff.

- - -

fanty again =P . Your art is really beautiful! I love the colors, and the clean look of your style. The characters are all quite distinct, with hair, eyes, skin, outfit choice, etc. and to the casual eye there's nothing generic or 'same'same' about them. However, if you're concerned about being too comfortable with 'one look', you may want to try more than one type of nose, face shape, eyebrows, and perhaps lips. Nothing too different, but slight variations such as a slighter pointier chin, pencil-thin eyebrows or slightly bushy eyebrows, a smaller nose or lower nose, etc. can be easy to apply and do a lot to mix things up a bit. A step further than that though, and the style of your drawings will change quite a bit, likely making it more realistic or more exaggerated, possibly more difficult to draw, and less, uh, simple and clean?

- - -

Edmania again for last, that's a really amazing job. Mechas seem totally impossible to draw for someone like me! Despite the complexity of the machine and all its sharp lines and angles, it's very clear and easy to make out the details. However, the drawing has an overall 'gray' wash to it. Being such a cube-tastic thing, shading the shaded faces and erasing from/highlighting the opposite faces shouldn't be too challenging, and would add a lot of interest and dynamism into a flat drawing. It looks unfinished or like a side-drawing now. But it may also be hard to retain the same level of detail and clarity if your shading/highlighting is too intense, so it's a balance.

I would recommend that the best treatment for a drawing like this is to apply the use of some fixed-width pens, which will help keep the clarity of your sharp clean lines and really make it all pop, and the fixed width will keep your lines cool and mechanical. Ink shading it optional at that point (though recommended), since the contrast of the jet-black lining from pure white paper will make it look much more finished, though I would recommend using at least three different pen widths for different parts of the mecha.

- - - - -

OK, I should stop procrastinating on homework now.

Oh, maybe I should post something... Uh... I always have a hard time wondering if anything is worth wasting people's time with... ummm...

How about a... painting? I did this a while ago, and I don't paint much though...

Oh well, here's a motorcycle commission I was roped into. No, you don't have to read the description. Yes, the photo quality is bad and the lighting is off.

While tips or critique on technical skill is appreciated, I really prefer thoughts on design elements, composition, impression and style, impact, etc.. But it's not necessary.

KTHX

<3 ali

edited 6th Oct '10 7:47:16 PM by almyki

My iMood

On the whole, I like it, although the individual elements seem to be a bit of a hodge-podge.

The thing that bugs me most about it is probably the weird way the tornado is emerging from the corner of that cloud.

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable

I feel as if there's some anatomy error (other than the size of the neck and head) here◊ but I can't tell what it is.

Either that or an error on how the cloth should be moving.

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.

^ Check the arm length to make sure the forearm:upper arm and left:right arms are equal in length. Also, keep the whole 6/7/8 heads tall rule in mind. Unless you're going for a really high-waisted look, her torso is kind of on the short end—only as long as her head is tall (but this is assuming the band on her dress is where her waist is). But if she's supposed to look like a child, you don't have to lengthen the torso a whole lot, since their heads are bigger in proportion to their body anyway.

Also, I think her dress should flow more leftward, since it looks like there's some kind of wind blowing her hair that way too. Oh, another thing might be to make the fold lines less straight, otherwise the dress looks spiky (unless, again, it's supposed to look that way).

Tumblr here.

She's not supposed to be very tall, so.

Also one of the arms are bent (and based on my rough check they're pretty much the same length)

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.