A Biblical Exegesis

...And which also does not specify whether the likeness is physical, mental, or spiritual. To me, the parallel reinforces that God is like a parent rather than a distant and disinterested creator.

If an offense come out of the truth, better it is that the offense come than that the truth be concealed.

@Treblain:

1. The authors of the bible were not particularly good writers anyway.

2. It's better to include both accounts and make your history/law book a bit shoddily written then to include only one and have your countrymen at each others' throats over their versions of scripture.

3. At the time this was redacted, the redactor was not trying to hide that this was a redaction at all. It's only later that myths sprung up about it coming all from Moses or all directly from God.

I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1

I don't know if you know this, but Genesis is really fucking old.

I'd just point out, although it's obvious to those who know it, that Genesis isn't the oldest part of the Bible, not by far.

"No, the Singularity will not happen. Computation is hard." -Happy Ent

This.

If an offense come out of the truth, better it is that the offense come than that the truth be concealed.

Like I said, this stuff doesn't get noticed by people. Besides that, scribes made lots of errors already.

^and that

edited 4th Jan '10 3:44:48 PM by Tzetze

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Not to mention that they weren't trying to compile the One True Story. They were collecting a bunch of important documents. From among many other documents. It was a matter of "Oh goddamnit, let's just use both versions, OK?"

Remember, Judaism at this stage was much more concerned with orthopraxy than orthodoxy.

"No, the Singularity will not happen. Computation is hard." -Happy Ent

When your text is the holiest of ideas and is going to be followed to the letter, "metaphors" and "details wrong" are unacceptable.

Nothing wrong with metaphors. They can be quite helpful illustrations.

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Yeah but when your text is the rulebook of the universe they are a very dangerous idea.

The law codes aren't in a metaphorical genre...

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?

Yes, the law codes are dryly straightforward, if euphemistic.

The stories are the parts with flowy language, which is perfectly reasonable.

edited 6th Jan '10 10:38:52 AM by Tzetze

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That's really the entire point of the Higher Criticism and everything: The bible isn't a book. It's a bunch of documents collected together, many of which have totally different purposes and came to be in radically different circumstances: You can't read the laws as the poems as the creation story as the historical narrative, because they're all different kinds of texts.

"No, the Singularity will not happen. Computation is hard." -Happy Ent

And yet 90% of the civilized world follows (or claims to follow) this (not a) book.

Actually, about a third of the world is Christian I believe. Please stop being uninformed.

Other religious texts are similar. The Hindus don't have one book either. Most atheists would not cite any one book to demonstrate their beliefs. Your assertion is completely ridiculous.

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Can we not derail like this, please?

I realise it's my fault for forgetting to update, but I'll remedy that.

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Derail? We are talking about the bible.

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Yeah, but I'm supposed to be liveblogging, and I'm a little worried that this discussion is getting heated.

Really don't want this to become a religion-bashing thread.

edited 6th Jan '10 4:03:12 PM by BobbyG

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I don't think that anybody is taking Ronin seriously. His arguments are kind of... really terrible.

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Actually, about a third of the world is Christian I believe. Please stop being uninformed.

To be fair, you could probably add a few million jews, since the difference between the Hebrew Bible and the Old Testament really are rather minor, so they at least follow part of it.

But yeah, 90%? Not really. Even Christianity+Islam "only" adds up to something like 50% of the world. Leaving about 900 million hindus, an equal number of buddhists and bit over a billion of "Other".

"No, the Singularity will not happen. Computation is hard." -Happy Ent

To be fair, Ronin said the "civilized world." However, since that would probably mean s/he doesn't consider places like India, Japan, Israel, or Egypt civilized, that's where my defense ends.

Legally Free Content

Alright, so continuing from where we left off with Genesis 4. This section is headed "The Descendants of Cain". Maybe it has vampires?

So, Cain and his wife (he has a wife, apparently, so apparently God made other humans besides Adam and Eve) have a son, whom they name Enoch. Cain, clearly a doting father, builds a city and names it after Enoch.

Uh-oh. We're getting into the genealogy now. Katrika and William advised me to skip this, but I'm going to read it anyway.

Enoch has a son named Irad, who is the father of Mehujael. Mehujael has a son named Methushael, who is the father of Lamech. Lamech has two wives, Adah and Zillah. Adah is mother of Jabal, whose descendants are "those who raise livestock and live in tents". Nomads, I'm guessing. Jabal's brother, Jubal, is "the ancestor of all musicians who play the harp and the flute". I don't see how this statement can possibly make literal sense.

Zillah gives birth to Tubal Cain, who made all kinds of tools out of bronze and iron (a footnote notes that one ancient translation asserts that he is the ancestor of all metalworkers). He has a sister, Naamah.

It feels like there's something missing here. Lamech says to his wives that he has killed a young man because the man struck him, and declares that if seven lives are taken if Cain is killed, then seventy-seven shall be taken if he, Lamech, is killed. So, he's kind of a jerk, it would seem.

Now, a short section headed "Seth and Enosh". Eve has another son, whom she says God has given to her to replace poor Abel. This is Seth, name meaning "has given". Seth has a son named Enosh. It is at this time that the people begin using the Lord's holy name in worship.

End chapter, for real this time.

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I hope that all flautists and harpists have a Jubal gene. That would just be funny.

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That sounds... somewhat improbable.

Genesis 5

"The Descendants of Adam".

We are informed once again that when God created human beings, He made them like Himself, created them male and female, blessed them, and named them Humanity.

What follows is a much longer genealogy, which would be very boring if I were to list it here. The most interesting thing about it? The ages given. As you probably know, the people in Genesis are supposed to have lived for an extraordinarily long time. For example, Adam fathered Seth at 130 and had other children before dying at 930. That's... impressive.

At the end of this chapter, Lamech has had a son, Noah. Noah fathers three sons - Shem, Ham and Japeth - all after he has reached the age of 500. Which is kind of awesome.

Noah's name means relief, because he was taken by Lamech to be a gift from the Lord to bring relief from their hard work farming the cursed ground.

Incidentally, when Noah is 500, it has been 1556 years since the creation of Adam.

Chapter over.

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Dang, I wish I remembered the explanation for the ages from Many Waters...

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I just divide by 10 or 5.

"Wait, it's IV. Of course they are. They'd make IV for Dreamcast." - Enlong, on yet another FFIV remake