One Piece

Stronger in terms of just physical abilities, or stronger based on other factors such as skill in battle and tactical prowess?

Raw physical strength, such that could be measured in Douriki.

I can buy that if only that it won't add much.

All he has is pure brute force & that is nothing in the hands of a rank amateur.

Well, duh. He was some challenge to post-time skip Luffy

edited 19th Aug '17 6:27:24 PM by Saiga

That was more due to terrain advantage though.

I'm just saying I think the idea of the timeskip gap being so big that the post-skip Starter Villain is stronger than the pre-skip Final Boss (Moriah was more of a sidequest villain) is stupid.

There would be absolutely zero point in the time-skip if it wasn't to allow the Straw Hats to make a big leap in power in a believable way.

The fact that we knew of people soooo much more powerful than Lucci means we should have had people in-between so Luffy and co didn't need to suddenly jump up that far.

And even despite all this, the Admirals still seem basically invincible.

That's the problem I have with the timeskip. I'm not sure where the series could fit a better opportunity to reach the point of being competitive with them.

That's not particularly surprising. The Admirals are supposed to be the highest military assets the entire WG has. They're supposed to be able to defeat the vast, vast majority of people no problem, and at least put up a decent fight against everyone else.

edited 19th Aug '17 6:37:29 PM by LSBK

See, I think that if the Straw Hats were suddenly able to go toe-to-toe with the Admirals, it'd be pretty cheap - by all rights, they should just demolish everything else in their path. And if they didn't, then you'd wonder why nobody else has beaten the Admirals.

That the Straw Hats still have a ways to go doesn't bug me that much. I mean, pre-skip Luffy went from being contained by an ordinary cage to knocking Warlords around.

Regardless, I don't have an issue with the admirals or emperors still being way above most people and the crew. I do have a bit of a problem with the government apparently finding two guys strong enough and interested in becoming admirals not already in the marines, but it was apparently a world-wide draft so...

I don't feel like the admirals are that much further ahead anymore. Luffy is already able to fight on par with at least some warlords and emperor commanders. He basically squished Doffy into the pavement when gear fourth was active and I'm pretty sure he could take Hancock or Jinbe.

I'm not sure if "knocking Warlords around" is quite right. Sure, Luffy's defeated Warlords, but I don't think he's ever actually had an easy battle against one.

• He nearly gets killed more than once against Crocodile, and the final battle against him wasn't exactly a cakewalk either.
• Moriah also posed a bit of a challenge, though said challenge came from Moriah's shadow powers and having to deal with Oars to actually get to Moriah.
• The "fight" against Kuma did not end in a victory.
• Luffy's brief tangle with Mihawk didn't go well either, mostly because Mihawk being a master swordfighter meant that Luffy's rubber powers weren't going to do much good against him.
• Doflamingo may have gotten smacked around a lot by Luffy's first round of Gear 4, but keep in mind Luffy couldn't keep him down after said smackdown and had to go a second round of Gear 4 in order to finally defeat him. And this was after Doflamingo had been beaten up already and had to stitch his internal organs together after Law did a number on him.

edited 19th Aug '17 6:55:42 PM by dragonfire5000

Luffy was also injured going into that fight.

And Doflamingo had most of his organs fucked up by Law before he and Luffy actually started fighting seriously. I'd say he was worse off in that fight, and even then Luffy's attacks didn't really seem to be hurting him until he went Gear 4th.

And I don't see the emperor commanders being on the same level as the admirals, though again that's one of those areas where things get trickier.

Still, Aokiji managed to beat Jozu fairly easily, and since we know that Marco's regeneration has a limit, his fight against Kizaru comes off as more stalling time than something he really stood a chance of winning at.

edited 19th Aug '17 6:59:35 PM by LSBK

Anyone else wonder about how Oda's going to write the Straw Hat crew becoming so much stronger than they are right now? Logically, by the end of the series, Luffy's going to be on par with Roger and his crew is going to have to be so much stronger in order to stay in their relative places within the crew. Another time skip? Just periodically and individually give them huge power-ups? Establish that they've gotten stronger off-screen?

Way I see it, the Straw Hat crew is still 3 or 4 tiers weaker than end-game level, and I wonder how Oda's going to have them climb those tiers.

I've often thought another time skip isn't that unlikely to happen all things considered, but at the same time I'd probably be annoyed with one.

But I mean, Luffy will probably have at least a Gear 5th eventually. And all the members with Devil Frutis have the potential to become awakened, I guess. Haki is something that, again, anyone should be able to learn how to use so that helps out the ones who don't already know how. But beyond just general stuff like that, I don't know.

edited 19th Aug '17 7:14:36 PM by LSBK

I kind of want the actual battles against Linlin and Kaido to be team efforts, not just Luffy or anyone else going up against them in a one-on-one battle. Kaido especially should be a team effort. It wouldn't be the first time multiple Straw Hat Pirates had to work together to take down a horned giant.

Yeah, but I don't think I'd be satisfied with the final battle of Luffy vs Blackbeard knowing that they're not even in the top 10 of strongest people in this series. It'd feel anti-climatic. I agree that some of the other Emperors/Admirals/other top-tier characters should go down to a team effort, but I think Luffy's going to have to beat some of them in a 1-v-1, and I really don't see him doing that as he is now.

LSBK: I don't think the commanders are on the same level as the admirals either. I meant that there's no one we know of in between the commanders/warlords and the emperors/admirals. I'm not saying there isn't anyone, but at this point I think we're starting to run out of people who aren't on that level.

Also I seriously doubt anyone on that level is going to go down to a team effort from the straw hats unless it's the C listers like Chopper and Nami.

Luffy vs. Blackbeard will most likely be one-on-one, considering how personal the conflict will be. I still say Kaido at the very least should be a team effort though.

Of course, there's always the possibility that Luffy vs. Blackbeard ends with Kaido trying to commit suicide again by jumping from a great height again and landing right on top of Blackbeard, taking him out and forcing Luffy to have to fight Kaido right then and there because Kaido still hasn't gotten over the whole SMILE business...

I'm not too worried about stuff like that since there are still reasonable power up paths for the Straw Hats to take. Luffy might have one or two more Gear Fourth forms to show, the Gum Gum Fruit's awakening might tie into a Gear Fifth, Zoro will probably get a new sword (the original Kitetsu, maybe?), Franky can build something new/upgrade himself, Nami, Chopper, and Brook could possibly get Haki of one form or another, Robin will continue to just not fight anyone one-on-one ever, there's always the Snow Snow Fruit etc.

Sanji and Jimbei are the only ones I can't think of a decent power up method for. Just as he spontaneously learned to set himself on fire, Sanji could I guess spontaneously get blue fire since it's hotter than plain orange fire, and in Jimbei's case they'll probably just pretend like he could always do whatever, just didn't because Oda hadn't thought of it reasons.

edited 19th Aug '17 8:48:36 PM by ComicX6

I can't think of non-hateable power-up for Sanji, but him getting a Raid Suit from his family as a reward for saving is still a possibility at this point.