One Piece

So, what do people think of my thought about Luffy and Law vs. Doffy? This thought came about in a rather interesting way. When I noticed that Luffy was trying to free Law before confronting Doffy (albeit because he quite understandably thought Doffy was dead), I was reminded of another conversation we had about the relative hype villains got, and how that hype transfers to Luffy when he beats them, leaving some villains looking retroactively overhyped. Gilphon said something on the subject that I thought was pretty interesting, namely that really hyped-up opponents should have some sort of mitigating factor to their defeat; the hypothetical scenario he used was Luffy defeating Kaido, but only because Kaido was holding back to avoid damaging the MacGuffin by accident.

So, how about a two-on-one vs. Doffy? We know he's stronger than Law (note that despite how powerful his Fruit is Law never directly attacks Doffy with it, implying he knows Doffy has a way around it), and Luffy and Law are probably around the same strength given the parallels between them. Thus, together, i'd imagine they could beat Doffy, and without Doffy losing as much hype as he would if he fell to only one opponent.

That would be nice, especially since Law obviously has a much bigger and deeper grudge against Doflamingo than Luffy does, but it probably won't happen. It's breaks the rhythm of things.

On Law just not using room to take Doffy's heart and then crush it or something like that, I just kind of assumed that Doffy's haki is better than Law's and that prevented him from taking that route.

We don't know if Dofi is stronger than Law. We know that Law is weaker than Dofi and an admiral. I don't see why Dofi should be considered stronger than Moria or Crocodile, so I think Luffy alone should be even against him.

Well, there's one good reason for Doffy to be considered stronger than Moria, at least — the WG higher-ups sent Doffy to assassinate Moria. They wouldn't do that if they didn't think he could do it.

Didn't he have Pacifista backup if he needed it?

I feel that Crocodile was the weakest of the old Warlords. He simply did not show the level of ability shown by Hancock, Kuma, Moria, Jinbe, and implicitly Doflamingo. He was even warmup to Moria.

How strong is Moria without the power of thousands of shadows to draw upon, though? As a combatant, he only worked as the pilot for Oars, or his final showdown with the Straw Hats where he went One-Winged Angel and sucked up all the shadows into himself. His threat was explicitly about what he had built more than his ability to fight. Crocodile's threat was all fight, plus Croc pretty fearlessly stood up to Doffy at Marineford.

Not hard to stand up when you're immune to his powers outside of Haki. Crocodile was also mostly prep and his organization got taken down, too.

Still, I wouldn't suggest that one of the two of Crocodile or Moria is much stronger than another. They both had poor solo showings, in my book.

He was still fairly strong using his own shadow, though.

Luffy's final victory was all kinds of bull, though. Croc has drained Luffy before, only PIS was stopping him from just doing that again.

Yeah, I'm working under the assumption that we're not supposed to hold Crocodiles bouts with Luffy with him. I never did understand the logic that if a villain loses even once to the hero they must automatically be considered weak now.

Regardless, of all of that, how he behaved at Marineford and how people reacted to him, just doesn't suggest that we're supposed to consider him weak. Plus, he's been in the New World for two years now, and I'm just going to assume that means the next time we see him, he's going to see a lot stronger.

edited 19th Apr '14 12:15:59 PM by KBSL

@ Orange: It definitely seemed to me like Doffy did most of the work. There were stretches of that fight where we only saw Law and Doffy, then Issho came back at the end to restrain Law.

@ WLW: I thought it was definitely implied Moriah was the weakest, myself.

edited 19th Apr '14 12:23:22 PM by HamburgerTime

Croc was considered a big deal by people at Marineford to the point he was noticed before everyone else by the grunts. He also fought Mihawk, Sakazuki and Doflamingo and came out unharmed and it appears they took him seriously.

And yet strangely, he didn't appear to have haki, he most likely will next time we see him, yet I still find it stange. Then again, Mihawks a big shot and he's never shown haki (though I think he probably does, seeing how Zoro learned it over the time-skip).

Did they have a reason?

Doflamingo has Haki and IIRC he cut Croc. Croc still Logia'd his way out of that, so he must have enough Haki to counter Doflamingo's.

Haki is soooo wonky.especially before all the black armament showed up.or after.

oh well.works decently enough~

I'm fairly certain that's not the case, nor is it the first time someone's made this claim, but I really can't be bothered to look through the thread or the manga to confirm it at the moment.

I did check. The grunts remarked holy shit it's crocodile before some others pointed out that it's not just him.

I remmeber pointing to the exact page where this was supposedly said the last time we had this discussion. Crocodile was treated as an annoyance by the actual power players.

I'm not saying he's objectively weak. I am saying he was shown to be one of the weaker ones.

Why does this discussion keep coming up, everyone has already made their opinions on it clear?

But the only person who actually treat him like an annoyance was Whitebeard, no one else just brushed him off, and I don't think they could afford to. But yeah, I think I'm doing talking about it.

Whitebeard ignored him. He wasn't even worth being considered an annoyance. But, we've had this discussion before.

Young Iceberg is actually a rather attractive guy.

I still say the people of Water 7 are the biggest idiots ever to fall for this.

More than the people of Dressrosa?

"We found the culprits! They're the ones heavily wounded by the warships! Detective work is so easy!"

'Alright, sprinkle some crack on him and let's call it a day.'