Magic: The Gathering

Got back from drafting Innistrad. I did somewhat poorly, but I was rare-drafting a little, so I can't complain much about that. The rares I got would probably end up paying for the draft if I could figure out a way to unload them at the average price. I ended up going RW.

It was fun and I got to meet some nice people, but I'm having a hard time shaking off a bad mood right now because of this one guy that was having difficulty being patient with the speed I play. I know that I play slowly, I often have a hard time making decisions about the game without giving it a lot of thought, and I usually end up being the person most likely going to time.

I'm getting a little self-conscious about it. Is it at all rude to take your time if that's how you play? I notice it gets some of the more serious players stressed out and I'm wondering what I should do about it.

I mean, it's the first week of Innistrad limited. Most people are still learning and getting used to the cards. Slower play is to be expected at this point, I'd think. Do you tend to speed up as you get more familiar with the cards?

That said, as long as you're not actually slow playing in a disruptive manner (i.e., playing deliberately slow in order to go to time in order to force a draw or something), it's not like you're doing anything wrong.

Yeah, and people were generally on my side about the whole thing, so I figure I'm... probably okay...

I'm not sure if being familiar with the cards helps me speed up... I guess part of my recent history of slow play comes from the fact that the last deck I was playing for standard was Splinter Twin and that involved a lot of shuffling (which I'm bad at) and decisions involving card order. I don't think I played M12 especially slowly. Maybe the simpler interactions helped there.

How do you usually shuffle?

Daily.

Nah, he's the one in the wrong here not you. So long as you aren't taking an absurd amount of time in an effort to stall to the round's end, he shouldn't be rushing you to finish your turn. That's just poor player etiquette.

However, ultimately, the definition of 'slow play' in the rules is one of outcomes, not intentions. Even if you are unaware of said slow play, anyone who plays at a pace which a judge considers to be unreasonably slow could get a warning for slow play. (This isn't a great definition, and at its core is pretty arbitrary, but is usually just an offense that gets a caution or warning and not a GL/ML.) This is not to be confused with stalling, which is a form of cheating, requires intent as well as outcomes, and is punishable by ML/DQ.

Just got back from Innistrad release. For the second time in a row, I got a Daybreak Ranger and a Kessig Wolf Run. At least this time I had the red to make them worthwhile.

Also, playing Charmbreaker Devils when the only card in your graveyard is Into the Maw of Hell feels absolutely delicious. "Yes, you will lose a land and a creature every turn. Hope you have some removal. Oh wait, you're GW and I killed your Plains first..." Every time I got the Devils out they were completely nuts - one game basically went "Rolling Temblor, Make a Wish, swing. Next turn, Prey Upon, swing. GG."

edited 1st Oct '11 3:37:33 PM by Glidergun

Hey, does anyone else find it a little annoying that in a set with top-down flavorful horror design, the only cards the Spikes seem to be excited about are Liliana and Snapcaster Mage, cards that don't have flavor or mechanics that are at all unique to a horror theme?

Well, I'm less annoyed by that than the fact that the power level of those two cards are just far and above anything else in standard. I don't care as much about flavor than that WotC is about ready to put us through two more years of JTMS and Stoneforge.

edited 1st Oct '11 6:21:07 PM by DarkConfidant

Speaking of which I got Snapcaster Mage in my very first Innistrad pack, which makes up for buses fucking me over and not letting me join today's Game Day.

I call him Secret Asian Man. Why's he in this world?

That's a secret.

Liliana is a sorceress-type who has dark powers. It's not a stretch to associate that with a world where demons and magical cultists run rampant.

As for powerlevels, Liliana seems fine but Snapcaster will be played in possibly every format he can fit into, and that's where JTMS and Stoneforge are.

edited 1st Oct '11 6:31:00 PM by OuthouseInferno

Liliana is no Jace. She can't win games on her own, and she doesn't even take over games the same way. If you have Liliana and a Titan, you're in good shape, but on her own she's not really that scary.

I'm not even sure she's the best planeswalker in Standard when we still have aggro-hosing win con Gideon in the format. (Though black looks to be better than white.)

Snapcaster is obviously good, but it's a support card. I don't think it can be format-dominating like Stoneforge.

Agreed. Liliana is good, but not quite that good. Doesn't hurt that her ultimate takes at minimum three turns of charging to go off (barring Proliferate effects, but those are usually expensive enough that you won't see that much of them being used on her early) so I'd call her balanced enough. And given how the block story apparently largely revolves around her and Garruk, I'd say flavor-wise she fits in quite well.

Snapcaster Mage is also powerful, yes, but it relies on getting other cards into your graveyard first. It isn't like Jace, who basically dominates games singlehandedly, or Stoneforge Mystic who can give you access to some of the most powerful cards in the game at a far, far cheaper price than what they would be balanced at. I won't deny it's a terrifyingly versatile and cheap effect, but it still requires at least a little set-up to use effectively. It's still pretty terrifyingly cheap at 1U though. It should be at least a 1UU for all that.

No idea what the flavor reasoning for it is though. It's just sort of there.

The reason Snappy's in Innistrad rather than somewhere in Scars block is because the card Tiago submitted basically used flashback in all but name. Flavourwise it doesn't really fit the set all that well. (Which, honestly, is the one problem I have with Innistrad — it's just weird to have a Magic setting where a generic wizard dude feels out of place.)

edited 1st Oct '11 7:14:35 PM by Nyktos

Went to the release today. Grabbed a fat pack and seven extra boosters.

Among other things: 2 Parallel Lives, Victim of Night, Liliana of the Veil, a handful of lands, Mayor of Avabruck, and Grimoire of the Dead. Traded the Liliana for seven more boosters and a playset of Victim of Night.

Actually, Snapcaster Mage is the second card Tiago submitted. The first was unplayable for rules and mechanics reasons.

If I recall, his initial card was:

Denying Channel

Land
{T}: Add {1} to your mana pool.
{2}{U}{U}, Discard ~: Counter target spell.

That's not unprintable for rules and mechanics issues. That is absolutely fine, rules-wise.

The problem is that it is an obnoxious, uncounterable Draw-Go card that is an auto 4-of in any deck that wants to leave blue mana up ever for any reason because it occupies land slots instead of spell slots.

edited 1st Oct '11 7:25:27 PM by Glidergun

@Dark Confidant: I am aware. That's the reason it took so long; they couldn't find a way to balance the counter land, and they couldn't contact Tiago for a while. The second card he submitted had an ability along the lines of "When ~ ETB, you may cast target spell from your graveyard. If you do, exile it as it resolves." Since they knew flashback was returning, they decided to wait so they could use it.

Man, fuck Magic.

Liliana is up to $45-$50 everywhere but SCG, where she's "out of stock" (code for "we've got dozens, but we're going to see how high the price goes before we sell anymore"). I was thinking that maybe I should just bite the bullet and buy a set, because I really wanted to get into Standard this season, but at that price? Fuck that shit.

Every once in a while, I manage to convince myself that mythics aren't bad for the game. Yeah, as if.

Well, maybe I can put together a decent white/blue build...

Ooh, double-faced cards seem cool. :O

^ My friend got Lilliana in an expansion. :3 Or was it an expansion? :/ In any case, he had it. :3

edited 1st Oct '11 10:16:22 PM by Zersk

Eh, I'd still say wait on buying Liliana for a while yet. Based on the New Phyrexia release, unless New Standard includes a black control deck that needs her desperately her value will definitely drop exponentially. Just look at what happened to Karn after all.

Featured on this page: more reasons I don't care for the competitive scene.

Yeah, I think Wizards has the opportunity to utilize mythic rarity to improve the game by saving it for the more oddball cards instead of just the cards that are just really, really good. I've always thought Mindbreak Trap is an example of mythic rarity done in a way that's fun, and Lotus Cobra seems to be the standard example of how it's done wrong.

As it stands, it's clear that Wizards just does what it does with mythics to get more money. Which I guess they can't be blamed for considering that they are a company that produces a luxury good.

And yeah, there's a reason I want to play a non-rotating format.

I'm not sure if anyone with an expert opinion really thought Karn was going to be anywhere near a tourney staple. 7 mana is pretty costly for something that close to win-more.

edited 1st Oct '11 10:41:16 PM by Gelzo

@moberemk: Karn started at $35 and only went down. Liliana started at $35 and has already gone up $10. How long exactly do you want me to wait here?

Standard will almost certainly include a deck — probably multiple decks — with three or four copies of her. I haven't tested the format much since I can't get Cockatrice to work on this computer, but in what little I have done, she has been very, very good. And she's good in exactly the kind of decks I like to play.

@Gelzo: I'd like to play a non-rotating format too, but as it stands there's absolutely no support for Modern in Toronto.

I suppose I don't need to buy the full set now. I can get two or three, play a slightly suboptimal version of the deck (whatever "the deck" ends up being...Solar Flare possibly, but the hipster in me wants to go for something else) and finish the set later.

edited 1st Oct '11 10:49:53 PM by Nyktos

I don't think there's much where I am either, but I'm thinking long-term here. I've got casual games and limited to tide me over until it works out.

I seem to remember Karn being $50 early on, but with regards to Liliana, someone put it on Gatherer quite nicely. To paraphrase, she's good in the same way Gatekeeper of Malakir is. It's 3 mana to get them to sac a creature, but you end up with a planeswalker instead of a bear.

Gatekeeper was what? A $3 uncommon when it was Standard? If the demand was the same, and there were 15 of a specific mythic to a specific uncommon, that'd be $45?

I bet I'm doing bad math here somehow.