When They Cry - Higurashi and Umineko

I assume this mean you are not playing the Steam version, right?

I know exactly what you mean with the sound. The quality of the musics and sound effects is not as great as the later Chapters or Umineko, but the sound design is excellent. It knows exactly when to play the right effects and tunes for maximum effect. It only gets better for when they start to actually have a budget to expend.

Btw, beware spoilers. Not only in general^note Higurashi is an old anime, so casual spoilers may appear here and there in the Internet but in this thread. Most people here probably read Higurashi and Umineko already. Of course, this thread have been quite silent lately and I trust most will be nice enough to not drop spoilers now we know there are newbies reading, but still, be cautious.

Nope, playing the older Mangagamer release. Apparently there are patches to change the font, the backgrounds and sprites, and the soundtrack too. I'm gonna try them out while playing the second arc but the really shitty original sprites have their charm, I say. Rena was creepy with those blank eyes the first time I saw it, and the old sprites definitely contributed to that.

"And you must be Jonathan Joestar!" - Sue

No, Heatth, this thread is just so incredibly active that we won't be able to remember to contain the spoilers!

Yeah, if anyone talks here in the near future it'll be our reactions to your reactions.

I have a crippling fear of accidental spoilers. Posts here are so sporadic and erratic that I don't believe there is a consistent spoiler policy, so there is always the threat of someone simply coming here and not using tags. It is mostly me being paranoiac, though.

Ryukishi's sprites aren't that bad once you get used to them. And personally, I actually prefer his backgrounds. Do try the patches, though. The fix of the sound is probably the most relevant if you don't mind the sprites. Personally, I like getting rid of the ugly Mangagamer UI too.

And, yeah, if you have the patience, do post here your opinions and reactions. Those are aways fun.

edited 24th May '15 8:00:34 PM by Heatth

There are a few musics I found better in the MG version to be honest (the scene where Keiichi plays baseball with Teppei in Tatarigoroshi, notably). The musics in the early arcs aren't that great due to the limited budget (they become incredible in Kai though), but the sound effects are already something indeed.

Now the translation in the original MG version is kinda of meh if I remember correctly, it might affect the experience a bit − reading it with the fantastic French tl made me enjoy it much more at least.

Don't you mean Teppei experiences "Goofy Time"? Classic momment.

@newbie: This series is best enjoyed as a hybrid horror/mystery novel. Many of Higurashi's twists are beautifully foreshadowed, with two solutions from the 8th novel being foreshadowed as early as the 1st. Pay attention, as ANYTHING could be a clue. If you wish to pursue the mystery aspects further, Knox's Decalogue for the most part is a pretty effective tool for these novels. Remember that these laws govern THE CRIME.

Did I give adequete spoilers or was I overly paranoid?

Since you are at the first novel, you have been given 6 mysteries to solve.

1. Deadline is at the 8th novel but if you're perceptive you can solve it by 6.

2. Deadline is at the 7th novel but can be solved by 3.

3. Deadline is at the 8th novel but can be solved by 7.

4. Deadline is at the 5th novel but can be solved by 3.

5. Deadline is at the 7th novel but can be solved by 3.

6. Deadline is at the 6th novel but can be solved by the clues you currently have, though better ones show themselves at 3.

edited 26th May '15 8:10:01 PM by magnum12

Magnum, not to be mean but that post is entirely unhelpful. Red text doesn't work under spoilers anymore, so you should really remove that, and anyway without context it just makes no sense. With context, it's a somewhat big spoiler.

The six mysteries thing also makes no sense without context, and even as someone who has read all the novels I have difficulty discerning which specific mysteries you're talking about. It's just plain confusing, you might want to remove it as well.

edited 26th May '15 10:54:57 PM by Crinias

Didn't play for the past few days because of exams but finally I'm onto the second arc. In fact I just witnessed Mion, or rather, 'Shion' give Keiichi food after the curry cooking contest and am now on the tips scene as I type this. I remain confused on whether Keiichi is simply going along with Mion pretending or is starting to believe they're two different people.

So was the crazy Mion from near the end of Onikakushi-hen Mion or Shion? I've basically figured out that the Mion who confronts Keiichi about playing baseball and resembling Satoshi and then the Mion who arrives at his house later on and contacts the 'Manager' are two different people. Now who is who? Who's the insane one? I'll find out as I play, I suppose.

On the subject of the replacement patches, I've tried out a lot of combinations but in the end I've decided to enable all but the sound patch. I prefer the original(royalty-free, or so I've heard) OST, strangely enough. As for the graphics/background patch, I'll stick to that for a while longer but I might switch back to R07's sprites further down the line as well.

I genuinely love myself for resisting the urge to hover over spoilers. I've read up on the Knox Decalogue thing before, from reading VLR so I'm glad to hear the story follows the same principles, I guess. Or will the story break every single one? I'm curious to find out.

EDIT: Also, Chie-sensei is totally, totally Ciel from Tsukihime.

edited 26th May '15 10:37:47 PM by danna45

"And you must be Jonathan Joestar!" - Sue

Yep, she's basically Ciel. In an OVA of the anime she even uses some Black Keys as weapons. Overall she's not that important, though.

I will say only one thing to your spoilered question, which should clear you of some doubt while still keeping the overall mystery uncertain. If you don't want to know and keep guessing on your own, don't read it.

In Onikakushi's Hinamizawa, you only ever see one of the twins.

edited 26th May '15 11:13:53 PM by Crinias

Not really sure Sir Knox is that helpful in solving Higurashi − I guess it doesn't hurt to know about the decalogue, but some of the solutions might seem to go against it (though there's a debate over that).

Anyway, during your reading, don't forget to remember (err… yeah) the elements and events that are common to every arc. And also don't forget that much of narration is in the first person − as every first person narration, the impressions and comments of the character might be slightly biaised at times.

I don't think Knox is really entirely helpful with Higurashi. I mean, once you have a narrator as unreliable as Keiichi you really have to make a lot more judgements about what's going on than in Umineko.

That said, the mystery isn't particularly complicated. By the end of the fourth arc you can probably figure out everything you need to, though I remember I messed up slightly on how certain things happened. The why will also be unclear, but you're not supposed to figure that out yet either.

It's practically midnight over here and I finished Watanagashi-hen just now. Playing horror during the night can't be healthy, but that aside...

That was amazing. From simply not giving Mion the doll leading up all the way to the murders on this fifth year. The arc was more eventful(Or at least, it sure felt that way) than Onikakushi-hen, so I liked it quite a bit. It would've been nice if it ended with just Keiichi on the bed after Oiishi left but nope, spooky ending as usual. Without that all-cast review session calming me down I doubt I'll sleep tonight. Or rather, I still can't get my mind off it. Particular that split-second with the stare after Keiichi confronts 'Shion' on the phone about how she's been missing for a few days already. Maybe I just scare easily.

I find it rather curious that Tomitake died the exact same way as last time, but Miyo's body was discovered the second time round. Considering in Onikakushi-hen I remember Keiichi describing Tomitake to be taking pictures during the festival, while he was helping Miyo with the lockpicking instead. So Mion killed him in both routes(apparently) but the circumstances are quite different, yet Tomitake dies the same way. Poor guy. If I was more awake I'd probably be able to think through this better.

So as far as I understand it, the first time we meet Sonozaki 'Shion' was genuinely Sonozaki Mion pretending to be otherwise. The first actual meeting with Shion was at the all-you-can-eat event and the phone call the night just before.

Somehow I still think that the imprisoned Sonozaki twin was Mion while Shion was actually the one doing the deed the whole time. Perhaps Mion was tortured into believing she's Shion? It unexplains a lot of things but seeing 'Shion' plead with 'Mion' to not kill him so desperately just makes me want to think so.

Now I can think of several explanations for that very last tidbit but not enough evidence to narrow it down to just one. It was either a delusion(it referring to either that part at the end, or the entire epilogue), or it's something to do with alternate worlds and timelines. It's a visual novel so I wouldn't be surprised anymore by anything revolving around alternate worlds.

On a last note because this is getting too long, but I just love how reliable Rena was in this route. For a good amount of the game I just couldn't trust her at all because of Onikakushi-hen(an expected occurrence, I'm sure), and even up until the end I started suspecting that following Keiichi to the Sonozaki household was just a plan to lead him there to kill him. Really glad to see that trust in friendship Rena shows. Or rather, I heard that by the end of this entire thing would be a tale of how friendship prevails, and I look forward to seeing that fulfilled. Considering what we learn in this route(and we learn a lot), I'm guessing that it was Rena's 'demon' side that was awakened in the previous arc, causing events to lead up to how it went. The fact that Mion was still responsible in Onikakushi-hen as well baffles me but I'm sure I'll find out the answer sooner or later.

edited 27th May '15 10:07:08 AM by danna45

"And you must be Jonathan Joestar!" - Sue

The next route is the first of the really good ones. By the way, the later Meakashi chapter will clear up your questions, though you can figure it out before that.

Some of your guesses are right, some are wrong. Not saying which.

Tatarigoroshien may or may not make you go insane, but it's certainly the most important of the question arcs.

… damn, reading a newcomers' theories is always fun, but it's hard to comment on it without spoiling anything. =__=

I am not sure what your criteria for "really good ones" are, but Tatarigoroshi-hen is easily among my favorites. (chapter 3 spoilers:) From the moment Teppei appeared until his death I was so immersed in Keeichi's thought process it was genuinely scary. And then there was the ending.

Good to see you enjoying the story. Higurashi is the type of story that it makes a huge difference between being knowing ahead or not. We veterans can look back and gain a new appreciation for the little hints scattered in the early chapters, but it is always nice to see newcomers opinions, as it gives a very different perspective.

I loved Rena in this Chapter too. That was the point where she becomes one of my favorite characters in the story.

edited 27th May '15 11:53:36 AM by Heatth

I don't know about criteria, but I consider Tatarigoroshi, Tsumihoroboshi and Minagoroshi the three best arcs, in ascending order.

Mion is my favorite, but I guess I won't say why until you're done with Meakashi.

As far as rereading Higurashi goes, I find it really difficult. A lot of the fun came from trying to figure stuff out since I started it unspoilered apart from the fact that people killed each other a lot. It's difficult to reread the early arcs as a result especially the first knowing what I do now about Rena, Mion and Keiichi at that time.

edited 27th May '15 12:17:40 PM by Arha

Watanagashi-hen was one of my favorites along with Meakashi-hen ( have fun with that one heh heh), and a tie between Tsumbihoroboshi-hen and Minagoroshi-hen. From a narrative stand point, I'd argue its one of the more important ones as its where Chekhov's Gun gets loaded in terms of clues, especially the 1983 Cotton Drifting Murder. Mion's my favorite too. Always full of lolz that one.

As per the mystery numbers, 1-5 refer to the set of Cotton Drifting Festival murders by chronological order and 6 refers to the Onikakushi-hen specific scenario.

Keiichi being unreliable doesn't break Knox's 7th since it asks a question of detective's objectiveity. Keiichi never has it. The BIG twist IMO complies with Knox's 4th due to the 4th's wording about unknown poisons/drugs being followed due to the parasite itself being the murder weapon in one scenario, not to mention the BIG twist being foreshadowed as early as the 1st novel. Knox's 2nd is complied with due to the actual supernatural entity being 100% innocent in the crimes.

Hey vets, should we warn the newb about Meakashi-hen's rep or should we Pass the Popcorn as the fireworks fly?

On a side note: I've been introducing my little sister to this series. Currently being half way through Episode 8.

edited 27th May '15 12:31:44 PM by magnum12

^ Nah, don't prejudice him.

Well, I suppose of all the routes Meakashi probably did get the strongest emotional reactions out of me. I suppose that does make it a bit of a favorite for me, in a weird way.

I would swap Tsumihoroboshi and Minagoroshi, but these are my 3 favorites too.

I know what you mean. Except for me it was Onikakushi. I unfortunately know some spoilers, but overall I was completely unprepared for Higurashi. Onikakushi tense atmosphere took me completely by surprise. In that sense it was one of the chapters that effected me the most, even though, looking back, I don't find it as good as some others.

Many would agree with you that Onikakushi-hen is amongst the weakest chapters though one of our regulars would disagree considering it one of the better ones by virtue of uber creepy atmosphere (a great point). Then again, 100% justified since in a way it IS the pilot, so it can be given the benefit of the doubt.

In terms of question arcs, Watanagashi-hen is the easiest and Onikakushi-hen is often considered the hardest. From my experiences, I had much of the former solved about 3/5 of the way into it (near the halfway point of episode 7).

IMO, Tatagoroshi-hen is in the middle of the pack in terms of novels, but only because it has such good competition. It's widely regarded as the best question arc (though my opinion is different slightly, favoring Watanagashi-hen). Note: Overall, the answer arcs are typically seen as better than the question arcs, with a 3 way debate between the 5th, 6th, and 7th novels being considered R7's Magnum Opus.

edited 27th May '15 2:57:17 PM by magnum12

Short update, mostly because I haven't posted for a while now. Was busy and lazy, mostly lazy.

Tatarigoroshi-hen! I am currently at the part after you meet Ooishi for the first time in this route and Irie tells some very interesting stories...

Firstly, Satoko is just so very cute this time 'round. I'm seeing a pattern here. Onikakushi-hen was basically Rena's route(kinda). Watanagashi-hen was Mion's route, and this is Satoko's route. The next arc will be Rika's route, I'm certain now.

Satoshi's been a very fascinating character ever since Onikakushi-hen, even though we still haven't seen him, not even in a flashback. Assuming what we learn about him from that arc holds true in this one as well, I look forward to seeing the mystery being answered. Was he 'demoned away'? Or did he leave precisely because he feared he would be? On the night of Watanagashi, no less. Or did he learn too much about something and leave?

Irie is easily very suspicious at first but I've come to warm up to him. This is the perfect time for the reveal that he's actually psychotic or was the killer. Plus, he's called 'manager'...He's suspicious as hell but I want to like him. Ah, what conflicted feelings I hold.

Finally, blank-eyed Rena is back, and creepy as ever. Despite using PS 2 sprites now, that moment was still really spooky.

"And you must be Jonathan Joestar!" - Sue

That's not quite it, but you're not far off. I guess you could say the first arc, being an introduction to the series, is Keiichi's arc. And while Rika does feature next arc, the focus is not really on her. But Tatarigoroshi is Satoko's arc and Watanagashi's Mion's.

The next route is kind of Rika's route in that it discusses her a fair amount as I recall, but it's a very short arc that doesn't even take place in 1983 or whatever.

I always thought Minagoroshi-hen was Rika's route.

THE MOM IS THE KILLER, SHE HAS TO BE

I kid.

Got to after Keiichi brings Satoko to the clinic and overhears that Irie suicided. Things got spooky real fast. And here I thought the murdering was the climax of the arc, but it turns out it's only begun...

Keiichi going full Mind of Steel and deciding to murder Satoko's uncle was great. The entire sequence was great. I can't say I don't share the sentiment, and the soundtrack that played helps. The guy can get really scary too. Mom providing him with a hint towards a perfect crime was so perfect it was a little suspicious.

Ooishi really is a lot less likable in this route. I can attribute part of that to simply him being really passionate about catching the true mastermind behind the Hinamizawa murders. Yet even then, he's still acting quite suspicious. That scene in the rain where Keiichi was trying to dig up the hole and Ooishi suddenly appears, gets his men to dig to find nothing, and then leaves just as quickly was quite eerie. Was that even real or a part of Keiichi's delusions?

Keiichi really is unreliable. How much of what's going on is real and how much isn't? The condition Irie diagnoses him with sounds very plausible, but there's still mysteries. Somehow I'm starting to think he really did kill the uncle, and Satoko insisting otherwise was perhaps more to convince herself such. I don't know.

Finally, it's almost confirmed that Takano killed Tomitake, speaking of which, RIP. Again. This makes Tomitake consistent in all three routes, and Takano in Watanagashi-hen and this. But not Onikakushi-hen since she went undiscovered. Because the implication is there, and only the implication, I still can't quite believe Takano did it.

And on the talk of arcs, so far Onikakushi-hen's been the weakest, I agree. But also the scariest arc so far, at least for me.

edited 1st Jun '15 1:31:57 AM by danna45

"And you must be Jonathan Joestar!" - Sue