Neon Genesis Evangelion

Biologically, clones are very similar to identical twins, so those questions don't seem especially difficult or deep. (Except for the bit about souls — but even if souls exist, they don't seem to affect the universe in any observable way, so a person without a soul would be indistinguishable from a person with a soul.)

Yes they would. A person without a soul would look like a puddle of tang.

Except you meant in real life, didn't you? In which case, yeah, we have no method to scientifically observe a soul.

edited 14th Aug '15 9:25:50 AM by TheAirman

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We are entering the field of metaphysics now?

Well, a person without a soul may look the same as a person with one but my guess is that their behaviours would be totally different.

I'm going to go with some Judeo-Christian concepts: the soul, that is, the thing that makes us different from animals and plants, is what enables us to love and to make choices, it makes us both rational and irrational.

If there were a person without a soul he would be akin to a robot, without the capability to love someone or something and would be a prisoner to his instincts and to his cold reason.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, maybe we should try to find the absolutes that tie us.

Also known as the brain. Humans are a social species; love is a beneficial and important adaptation. There's no need to resort to unverifiable metaphysical claims to explain traits that have an obvious evolutionary benefit.

But yeah, I guess in Evangelion, the soul is whatever allows people to generate an AT field and not turn into a puddle of tang... which also makes the "do clones have souls" question easy: if they don't look like an orange liquid, they have a soul.

Here's the ultimate Eva question, though: is Fuyutsuki or Kaji the bigger bro?

I would say Kaji as he seems to go out of his way to help Shinji in some way. Fuyutsuki tries to rein in Gendo but he failed miserably.

"Analay, an original fan character from a 2006 non canon comic. Do not steal!"

Fuyutsuki really has nobody to bro with.

Nous restons ici.

It isn't as though that he didn't try, it is that he tried and failed to be a bro.

"Analay, an original fan character from a 2006 non canon comic. Do not steal!"

Identical twins are indeed clones. What the Cloning Blues trope is about, and Rei is a prominent example, is not cloning in the technical sense but making, and modifying, humans artificially. A big point in NGE is the lack of any childhood, and being replaceable. Gendo sees Shinji as worthless, while protecting Rei but not wanting any lasting bond. I guess part of the idea with Rei was that if you don't have value to those around you, you must create your own value. Like much else in NGE, a philosophical outlook that doesn't come across clearly in execution.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.

Yeah, I've seen more than a few fics in which Rei goes through major angst after realizing that Gendo doesn't really care about her as a person, only as a tool for his plans, and believing that there isn't anyone who would care in such a way about an expendable clone like her. Not even Shinji, who she firmly believes would reject her if he ever knew about her true nature.

Too "bad" Shinji pretty much always proves her wrong in those fics. And I think sometimes even Asuka gets to call her out on having such a stupidly negative outlook.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Found an interesting post as to why one doesn't see Rei as strong as the other characters.

"My problem is this: If I imagine all the characters to be real, it just works; they work. Most of Evas characters could be based on real persons. I know at least one Asuka, a handful of Shinjis and Tojis, at least one Gendo and maybe some Misatos have crossed my path. Now the thing is, that just doesn't work for Rei. When I isolate her, like she is shown to be - not implied, but shown - and put her in to a real life setting, she collapses. Without her roots in the Evangelion Universe, she couldn't possibly exist, because she is more caricature than character. I'm totally fine with that. I wouldn't want it to be any different. To me she's Deus Ex Rei and I like her/it that way. There isn't really that much happening to and with her character over the course of the series, and when there is something happening, its mostly to advance the plot - rarely to flesh out her character and relationships.

I don't think I'm over simplifying by stating she was emotionless. The only time I remember her showing some sort of emotion was in context with Gendo in a very limited way and she seems to be more of a tool - a plot device - than a real human being unlike basically everyone else, even Pen². From the perspective of an observer, someone who is watching the show, I see the importance of Rei. From the perspective of a person, who is trying to relate to the characters on the screen, I don't."

I guess, since I managed to sympathize with Rei the most, it's all subjective.

Her line of "I don't know what to feel in these situations" struck a chord with me.

But I know what he means. All the cast of Eva are defined by their neuroses, but Rei is the one with behaviour that is obviously, saliently non-human. Any real person with no clue on how to act with others would have some quirk or other that would show up.

But then anyone acting quite like Asuka would get reprimanded in some way.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.

Does that make Rei a bad character or impossible to sympathize with though?

... You just admitted that you sympathize with her. That makes two of us at the very least.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I guess I just love the classic tale of someone who isn't human learning to become human through love and the like. Rei is a great example of many story elements that I have always like seeing, which helps to make her so interesting to me.

Plus, I find her far more easier to get attached to than Asuka, mainly due to her more soft spoken and respectful manner.

Also,, how would you guys describe Rei's personality, since some think she doesn't have one.

There was even a thread on Evageeks where Rei is compared to Frankenstein's Monster however it doesn't seem to be an accurate comparison. I will find and post it here.

"Analay, an original fan character from a 2006 non canon comic. Do not steal!"

Why is every time I look in this thread the topic is some variation of Rei? Specifically about Anno's view of Rei vs. the fandom's? I mean, I like Rei, but there were other girls in Eva ya know. Like that other one who was a bit of a spicy meatball. She was a tough one alright. Oh right, it was Hikari.

Don't think there were any other girls in Eva around Shinji's age besides Rei and Hikari.

Cause it's a topic LDragon loves to bring up, a lot.

I'm on Youtube Reviewing Things Cause I can.

Here is the thread if anyone is interested.

"Analay, an original fan character from a 2006 non canon comic. Do not steal!"

Hey, she is my favorite character.

This may also stem from me worrying that Anno's gonna screw up her character in the next film, given his comments about her and the way 3.0 ended up.

Might as well add in a discussion that doesn't involve my anime crush.

What do you think of the way the series presents its message? Is it too heavy-handed, or is it portrayed in a more subtle manner than most people give it credit for? For that matter, do you agree with it?

Well, for starters, what exactly is Eva's "message?" I thought that was a discussion all on its own. I felt it had several different Aesops it wanted to convey.

You know, that life is worth living regardless of the hardships, your "truth" is what defines you and how you view the world, and that as long as you are alive, you can be happy.

On that one, very badly. It is unrelentingly grim for the second half then tries to tack on an out-of-the-blue happy ending that does not follow from the rest or work on its own (it's really just force-feeding the audience everything they've been over then suggesting that changing your perception of reality is a magic bullet). The other 24 episodes are great at looking at what is wrong with people, but has no idea what to do about it. Psychologically rich but philosophically bankrupt.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.