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rename: One Thousand Needles
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rename: One Thousand Needles get usage counts

courtesy link: One Thousand Needles

Because the second name is more general.

Discuss.

Note that there are at least two examples there that aren't actually the trope of calculated damage—one being an enemy merely named Thousand Needles, and the other being a fancy attack called Thousand Blades.

edited 17th Mar '10 5:33:14 PM by GlennMagusHarvey

It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.
Solar Powered
Courtesy link.

EDIT: You ninja, Glenn. Can't see anything wrong with this change. One Thousand Needles is kinda of a "Huh?" title anyway...

edited 17th Mar '10 5:33:48 PM by catch_the_sun

"Life isn't poker - it's Magic: the Gathering." - Matrix
 3 Servbot, Wed, 17th Mar '10 5:41:40 PM Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Hm, I prefer something like Fixed Damage.

Calculated Damage sounds like damage that went through some form of computation (i.e., practically every type of damage in Video Games and Tabletop Games).

edited 17th Mar '10 5:42:24 PM by Servbot

Fixed Damage might be nicer. It also is vaguely reminiscent of the weapon named Fixed Dice in FFVI.

Though, then we'll have ot make exception for Psywave, which deals a random amount of damage between 3 and 1.5x(userlevel).

edited 17th Mar '10 5:43:45 PM by GlennMagusHarvey

It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.
 5 Madrugada, Wed, 17th Mar '10 7:04:32 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Why do we need to make an exception for that example? It isn't this trope; it's Proportionate Damage (how much damage it does is proportionate relative to the victim — there are lots of attacks like that). That said, I like Fixed Damage or Set Damage.
'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
 6 Clarste, Wed, 17th Mar '10 7:21:28 PM Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Three Steps
All damage is calculated. Fixed damage is damage that doesn't have any variables in its damage formula. Psywave is an attack that uses an unconventional stat in its formula instead of special attack or whatever they call it in Pokemon. Those are completely different tropes.

 7 Dragon Quest Z, Wed, 17th Mar '10 8:00:06 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
Is there anything wrong with the name? In this case, Fixed Damage can at least be a redirect.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
I was going to say something about Calculated Damage not meaning what you think it does, but I see that's been covered. So Yeah, Set Damage or Fixed Damage.
panic
Well, to be honest, "calculated damage" is a phrase that is true for all damage anyway.

It's just that gamers reading the term would immediately think that the damage is not calculated normally, and ignores certain usually-relevant factors.

Clarste: I think Psywave should be included, even though it's not a "pure" example. That's because this trope is supposed to be about attacks that deal damage using an algorithm that's different from the normal algorithm that usually accounts for attack and defense powers and elemental alignments.

Perhaps Defense Piercing Damage or Defense Piercing Attack might be in order?

I would suggest Formula Damage but it has the same problems as Calculated Damage.

My problem with the current name is that it can be confused with Death By A Thousand Cuts, and as shown in the current examples, it has been confused for that already.

Guaranteed Damage? Hmm, that sounds interestingly nice. It is in fact guaranteed in the sense that it can't be reduced by physical/magical/elemental defenses and immunities. Not a guaranteed amount, per se, but a guarantee that the damage will be dealt.

edited 17th Mar '10 9:53:17 PM by GlennMagusHarvey

It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.
 10 Dragon Quest Z, Wed, 17th Mar '10 9:54:02 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
"My problem with the current name is that it can be confused with Death By A Thousand Cuts, and as shown in the current examples, it has been confused for that already."

Okay, that's a good reason.

How about Always One Thousand Damage, to at least somewhat keep Final Fantasy as the trope namer?
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Well, here's the deal: Do we exclude such attacks as Psywave?

Because those do have a variable amount of damage; it's just that it's calculated far differently.

I fear that if we narrow it to only fixed-damage abilities, we have a pretty narrow pool. Pretty much just 1000 Needles, and a few pokemon moves. And it betrays the actual intent of the trope.

Keep in mind that there are other such "variable fixed damage" attacks:
  • Final Fantasy VI has the Dice and the Fixed Dice (damage formula of the latter is 22 x the product of all the dice faces)
  • FFVI also has the Atma Weapon sword, whose damage output ignores defense, attack, elements, and even halving due to the Offering relic, but is calculated directly from the user's HP.
  • Super Mario RPG's Rock Candy item deals 200 damage to all enemies...unless you achieve a (pretty difficult) timed hit in which case it deals 350 damage to all enemies

edited 17th Mar '10 10:01:44 PM by GlennMagusHarvey

It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.
 12 Dragon Quest Z, Wed, 17th Mar '10 10:03:40 PM from Somewhere in California
The Other Troper
Actually some RP Gs have items and spells that do a fixed amount of damage. I think Legend of Dragoon had some.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Oh, another one: the cactuar from the Final Fantasy series itself.

According to http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Cactuar , the Cactuar guardian force in FFVIII deals X000 damage where X is the first digit of the GF's level or something.

An alternative to Guaranteed Damage: Oddly Calculuated Damage (mathematical pun aside).

edited 17th Mar '10 10:15:29 PM by GlennMagusHarvey

It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.
Guaranteed Damage is horrible. It sounds like an attack that always hits, which has little to do with the trope. Set Damage and Fixed Damage still work, even though many are semi-random; it gets the point across and we'd just need a note in the description that it's slightly broader than the name suggests. Oddly Calculated Damage could be a number of things (like, say, Low Kick).
panic
Wait, how is low kick calculated?

Also, does the following fit in this trope?
  • Robo from Chrono Trigger has a weapon called the Crisis Arm, whose attack power (but not damage output) is based solely on the last digit of his HP.

Another name idea: Specially Calculated Damage?

edited 17th Mar '10 10:45:59 PM by GlennMagusHarvey

It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.
Low kick is based on the enemy's weight. You know, the stat that the writers chose the value of arbitrarily and normally has no effect.

That example is misplaced.

That had the exact same problem as Oddly Calculated Damage.

edited 17th Mar '10 10:50:50 PM by Hylarn

panic
Interestingly enough, just today in Muelsfell: Rise of the Golems new monsters were released that share a new attack that always appears to do 5 damage, regardless of armour.
BTW, I'm a chick.
Hylarn: Really? This says otherwise. Unless this is a new feature that's been added since RBY.
It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.
Maybe we could make a lumped trope for all sorts of Oddly Calculated Damage, actually.

Subtypes/subtropes:
  • defense-piercing (i.e. defense-ignoring)
  • ones that depend on unusual choices of stats
  • ones that deal fixed damage
  • ones that deal some randomly generated damage regardless of stats
  • some combination of the above, such as ones that deal randomly generated damage that's based solely on an unusual choice of stats

edited 17th Mar '10 11:14:30 PM by GlennMagusHarvey

It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.
 20 Madrugada, Wed, 17th Mar '10 11:16:31 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Oddly Determined Damage, since the ones this trope started out being about don't really get "calculated"; there's no formula that's adjusted according to attacker or victim — they always do the same amount. I mean, yes, whoever wrote the game calculated it once, but the players don't calculate anything.
'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
It is.

No. That'd include all sorts of completely different abilities. The move that ignores defence, the spell that deals greater damage to enemies with more status effects, and the attack that is calculated with swapped attack and defence values don't belong together. You could create a supertrope and subtropes, but they should be separate.

edited 17th Mar '10 11:18:37 PM by Hylarn

panic
Point taken, subtropes are better.
It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.
 23 Madrugada, Wed, 17th Mar '10 11:55:45 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
@ Hylarn: was your last post in response to Glenn or me?
'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
To me, I think.
It Just Bugs Me! - a place to discuss media, real life, and other topics.
El Cid
I'm fine with Fixed Damage for the current trope.

For the other examples mentioned... maybe Formulaic Damage?

Alternative Titles: Damage Algo Supertrope
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the name will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of Crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative names.
At issue:
Rename One Thousand Needles: new name for a trope about attacks that do a fixed numerical amount of damage, ignoring the game's usual damage algotirhm.
Total posts: 117
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