V
@ pagad: Stratos4: Yep, it's a TSR-2 — there was so much demand from Japan that Airfix made a TSR-2MS version of their TSR-2 model!
...and it's not the only aircraft from that era: the show's full of them...
edited 9th Oct '12 2:41:00 PM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling On
Isn't it amazing, now I have princess wings!
Nice YF-23, and it's insanely badass in Super Robot Wars.
I hadn't heard of Stratos 4 before, so I be checking it out. It will have to do something really well (like art or character interaction) to impress me because it seems to be mostly fanservice.
Wise Papa Smurf, corrupted by his own power. CAN NO LEADER GO UNTAINTED?!
I see the Awesomeness.
Barkey, get a semi see through eye patch and mount a red LED behind it. Terminator chic is in this year.
Fight smart, not fair.
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
| -Sees all the animu stuff in the thread- |
| Gentlemen I am sorry. But it has come to pass that the only choice is the ultimate solution and biggest use of power available |
| -Hours later from Orbit- |
| God speed thread! |
 |
Hmm it looks like the reason for the unreliable fragmentation issue of the 5.56mm evenout of a full sized rifle came when they switched from a higher velocity 55 grain bullet to a 62 grain one.
Who watches the watchmen?
OMG NO NOSECONES
I know that they had to adjust the rifling of the M16 to compensate, they had to increase the twist-rate from 1 turn in 12 inches to 1 in 7 or something like that (too lazy to verify). I also recall some crap about older 55-grain ammo being sub-par out of A2 rifles, and being emergency issue only.
I mean, shoot - they practically rebarreled the rifles, so they could have gone a little bit further and rechambered it to fit another intermediate cartridge, provided that the new round fit within standard magazines...
Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
The 55 Grain got shelved in the name of NATO standardization. The 55 Grain had trouble piercing steel helmets at requisite ranges. They went to the heavier bullet for the better penetration at range but the problem is it fudged up the fragmentation profile of the round. As for the rifling that may have also been a switch from test to production. Also too lazy to double check atm.
Who watches the watchmen?
Yep. The turn rate in the newer 5.56mm NATO barrels is one turn in 7 inches because the bigger, heavier bullets than the original M193 needed a faster turn rate to have any chance of retaining a stable trajectory. I don't think that the barrels turn rate was decided before the bullets started getting tested.
It seems that the only reason that the M193 was binned at all was because the folks who make all those rules on warfare felt that the terminal effects on a target using those bullets was inhumane, as they actually did what they were supposed to do and kill or maim the targets due to the bullets fragmenting inside them.
More details here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9745mm_NATO
Also, firing the M553 round through a short arsed carbine like the M4 was never what the round was designed for. No wonder the ballistics and terminal effects suck worse than a Dyson vacuum cleaner.
edited 10th Oct '12 12:51:46 AM by TamH70
rollin' on dubs
The M-4 was built for the troops in the rear, it was based on a carbine that special forces used in Vietnam. Popular Mechanics ran an article on the M-4 waaay back in the early 90's. They were driven around in a deuce and a half (2.5 ton LMTV), the M-4 in the LMTV's weapons rack. The Army Public Affairs people made a point of having a short female soldier be the one that fired the M-4 along with the Popular Mechanics reporter.
Fast forward to the latter 90's and early 2000's. The Army wants a rifle for urban warfare, cue the love for the M-4. Troops riding in Bradley's like'em. Those of us who are in the rear got screwed because we still have the full length M-16's.
I've had blank adapters poke me in the ribs (and other sensitive places). Rifles bang into my kevlar, etc. I hate the M-16, it's too big for the cab of a FMTV.
To top it all off, the new carbine competition will see the front line units get either an improved M-4 or a new carbine. Those of us in ADA and other rear echelon units will get refurbished M-4s.
All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be on The First 48
Folding or collapsing stocks would solve the length issue. Oh, sorry, gotta go.
Hell March 3 time naow.
V
The BAE-EADS Deal is off — due to opposition from Paris...and most of all, from Germany.
edited 10th Oct '12 4:57:45 AM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling On
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19897699 has the same story but not behind Murdochia's paywall.
Interesting news. The French government and the German government thought that they would get a really big say in the company that makes the British nuclear deterrent how exactly?
V
^
They are shareholders in EADS, that's how...
Keep Rolling On
Letting two nations that have been our historical enemies for centuries^ having any say in the vital issue of a nuclear deterrent was never going to sit well for most members of the current Tory dominated government. I am surprised that a lot of people thought that this deal was going to be a shoe-in.
I am well aware that British Wasteofspace needs to be taken over, and run on proper commercial lines for once, but this was always going to be a non-starter.
^yes, I know they are our "allies" now. I also know why. So do the Tories.
V
It was the Germans who had fundamental objections to the BAE-EADS deal, not the British Government (on the surface) — they thought it would be a shoo-in. The Conservative right would hate it*, but even they would expect the deal to continue. At least that's what I'm picking up, between calls of "Traitor" for even considering the deal...
^
They aren't our "Allies". Nobody is.
edited 10th Oct '12 5:35:33 AM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling On
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
Last I checked the new 5.56 round the U.S. is still 62 grain. Has a steel penetrator tip with a copper body and copper core. It is more powerful then the previous ammo load with a higher velocity.
Who watches the watchmen?
Hmm. I was reading about this earlier on, I think. Oh yeah.
The newer M262 5.56mm round, as used in this,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_12_Special_Purpose_Rifle
has a bullet weight of 77 grains. As seen here, (and sorry, it is a pdf file. Avaunt ye, foul Adobe.)
http://www.lmsdefense.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1193.0;attach=784
The slightly older yet still new(ish) M855 A1 rounds are 62 grains though.
OMG NO NOSECONES
I didn't mind lugging an M16A2 around, back in my day - light, not a lot of stuff to snag onto my LBE, and some duct tape on the BFA made it more or less friendly for use. It shot well and was easy to use.
...just a total pain to clean the bolt group and chamber locking lugs. Not a fan of the direct impingment system of operation.
edited 10th Oct '12 10:48:16 AM by pvtnum11
Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
M4 with piston upgrade.. Then we would be good to go for some time.
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
Tam: That weapon system is probably using match ammo vs the standard infantry ammo. It is a Spec Ops type sharp shooter weapon. I would not be surprised if they chose to fire higher grade ammo out of it.
Who watches the watchmen?
OMG NO NOSECONES
Barkey, needs a longer barrel, though. When you rely upon your round being hypervelocity in order to inflict damage to a target, cutting back on the barrel length seems counterproductive to that end-goal.
You lose around 200 fps with the shorter barrel.
Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
Works fine for my purposes.
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
Well there is a point where barrel length adds nothing to the bullets velocity or acuracy. In fact you get too carried away the bullet will start to lose velocity.
IIRC the bullet should leave the barrel just before you use up any useful energy for pushing the bullet down the barrel.
The bullet size, power of the cartridge, and length of the barrel all need to be considered for range, accuracy, and velocity of a shot.
Who watches the watchmen?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
True. The ballistic equations for barrel length, muzzle velocity, effective range and terminal effects are pretty complex. There is a sweet spot for the length of barrel depending on the role you want the weapon to perform. I just think it is stupid to ask a carbine-length barrel to do the same job as a rifle-length barrel because it is impossible for the shorter one to do as well.
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
Indeed. Some marines were complaining at one point they had to have M16A2 performance out of M4 package.
edited 11th Oct '12 4:41:39 PM by TuefelHundenIV
Who watches the watchmen?
@Gabrael: From what my wife said, it was more sobering than anything else.
Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.