Series/Supernatural

• Reapers - that could make sense
• Bloodlines - 9x01 - Hael trying to possess Castiel; Ezekiel possessing Sam. Too much of a coincidence that they happened to be compatible bloodlines. I'm not buying it. So, I'm opting for they just didn't care.
• Reapers dying - Actually, we have. In season 4. Where Alastair was sacrificing reapers for whatever he was doing. But my point is, why are they dying like angels? Couldn't the writers have thought of some other SFX way for them to die?
• Death. He seems like such a hardass when it comes to his reapers. It seems more likely to me that he's all want them in a pretty little line and not off making deals like common demons. Of course, this is just my speculation.

edited 24th Oct '13 3:46:57 PM by zombielovescore

Maybe he doesn't care as long as they get their regular job done? Or, just maybe, he's behind rogue reapers and is getting a cut of the sweet angel loot.

I think that a bloodline like Sam's is pure enough for any angel to be in, although there's nothing that says so. If nothing specifically rules this out, I'm keeping it as my explanation.

The rogue reapers pay off Death with fast food.

edited 24th Oct '13 3:49:33 PM by KesagakeBoy

I'm pretty sure it's been stated that, since they were basically bred to contain Lucifer and Michael, Sam and Dean are essentially the omnivessels: any angel who manages to get consent can take 'em for a joyride.

& But Michael couldn't possess Sam.

Well, I won't say that's entirely true because it was never explicitly stated. It just said Sam was Lucy's true vessel and Dean was Michaels - but, I don't know. They made such a big deal of "true" vessels in season 5 that it just seems kind of ridiculous that angels can seemingly disregard bloodlines now. And then, that still doesn't explain Hael. You could make the argument that because Jimmy's gone and Castiel is/was an angel, that the bloodline doesn't matter, but it still seems like an Ass Pull.

edited 24th Oct '13 3:52:56 PM by zombielovescore

I think Hael was kind of insane at this point. And, this may be a little bit of an ass pull in and of itself, but maybe bloodlines are shared by multiple angels?

Haha, Hael was pretty nuts, I'll give you that.

"but maybe bloodlines are shared by multiple angels?" That's probably definitely true, but it still goes back to "too much of a coincidence", though. I just can't buy that the first angel Castiel runs into (and yes, maybe she found him on purpose - except I don't think she knew he was mortal at first) and the first angel that finds Dean (and wants to help him) just happen to be compatible.

edited 24th Oct '13 3:58:20 PM by zombielovescore

Eh, I'll take it. My worry is that they might start using Ezekiel as a Deus ex Machina; he's already been used as such twice.

It's not really Deus Ex Machina if it makes the most sense for him to do what he does. If anything, it'd be weirder for him to have not done what he did in those situations.

Is there a name for that? Like, anti-Deus Ex Machina? The 'we-should-have-ridden-the-eagles-to-Mordor' effect?

I don't know; if there's not, Should've Rode The Eagles To Mordor would make a good name.

Brought to you by the authors of Racist Truck!

I rest my case.

I actually didn't think that episode was that bad.

- waits to be pelted with rotten tomatoes -

edited 24th Oct '13 6:18:50 PM by KesagakeBoy

.*a rotten egg tomato zooms through the air, heading straight for Kesagake Boy*

.*zooms away at the last minute*

Even that tomato is disgusted.

I never noticed much bad about it either. I mean, I guess it was kind of boring in places.

I did really like Sam enacting a plan that might've killed Dean. Even pre-soullessness, Sam has been kind of a jerk.

You know what I don't like about that episode? Cassie. And when I say I don't like Cassie, I mean I hate that the writers gave a single example of girl-from-Dean's-past...and then added another one that he was closer to. It does not help at all that the original was black and her replacement was white.

When has sex ever not been awkward in this show?

Point taken.

You know what was considerably funnier than forced "sexy" moments?

Forced homosexy moments.

Uhm... I honestly don't understand why everyone is so mad about last episode. I thought it flowed with the season, and had good action/drama/humor as usual. Not quite as OH MY GOD as episodes 1 and 2, but still good.

I get where the fangirl outrage is coming from, kinda, but... Destiel has always been a long, LONG shot, so Cas nailing a woman doesn't bother me. Also, I sort of have a Doctor Who filter for Supernatural... sometimes the rules change or do weird stuff. So the whole "wait why are reapers different" thing doesn't bother me either.

Oh. About the angel bloodlines... I always figured it went like this.

1) Not everyone can handle being a vessel

2) Those who can handle being a vessel vary in vessel-holding capability

3) More powerful angel=stronger vessel required

So if Jimmy could hold Cas, then Cas can hold any angel of comparable or lesser power. Since Sam and Dean are basically the uber-vessels, they can hold any angel. And so on.

edited 26th Oct '13 4:38:52 PM by wisewillow

Actually according to Ben Edlund, demons are humans perverted BY angelness (in this case, Lucifer). See link below where I lay out how well it all ends up working.

Yes, I give major kudos to the opening staff. (nice catch on the leviathan thing) It's also why I really liked the the 4th season opener.

Someone bring up Reapers possessing?

RRRRRAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEE

MAY LEVIATHAN DO TO THE WRITERS WHAT THEY'RE DOING TO THE CANON! GAH!

edited 28th Oct '13 6:39:28 AM by NateWinchester

Actually willow I politely disagree (and this is one of my problems with Dr Who). When it comes to genre worlds, rules are even MORE important.

Consider for instance one of the best moments from an episode of season 4, Family Remains. That is: the girl crosses the salt line. Why does this scene work as one of shock and tension? Because it's been established as a rule that ghosts don't cross salt. Whatever the girl is, she's not a ghost (or a demon for that matter).

As John C Wright frequently likes to point out, authors of fiction are very much like magicians. Everybody participating knows that it's not true, but they go along for the ride to be entertained. Yet what makes a good vs bad magician? Whether you can see the sleight of hand. When writing something, authors must take effort that the readers don't "notice" (well it's not so much them, as their brain, aka subconscious) the author's "hand" in the story.

In a genre story, rules hide the hand. When you start breaking them, then the audience no longer enjoys the work - you've become a bad magician. The audience realizes (even if they can't vocalize it) that the tension and escape from a scene are entirely at an author's whim. Why is there "tension" in this scene? Well because the author is telling us there is, they are no longer showing us the tension. How will the heroes escape? However the writers desire because the solution won't be organic.

The worst (or best?) example of this would be ST: Voyager as frequently pointed out by SF Debris. Eventually the show just became: "Things are tense because the writers said so. The heroes live! because the writers said so." Yes that's technically always the case in fiction, but like the best magicians, the audience isn't supposed to see it.

Let me clarify: so long as they follow the major, basic rules, such as the salt lines etc, then minor edits with mythology don't bother me. The reaper mess up didn't really alter my understanding of the show or affect tension, so I'm cool with it.

Ah I gotcha, Willow. Well I disagree (obviously) but I grok ya. /respect

Have angels always looked like blue/white demon smoke? I thought that was odd.

I don't think we've ever seen what an outside-of-body angel looked like besides just some bright light.

With the angels (aside from the Metatron) all banished, Ash can hack heaven to his heart's content.

So what about the other cherubs and other types of angels?

edited 29th Oct '13 8:13:14 AM by wanderlustwarrior

We've been told though. Cas is bigger than the Empire State Building, and Zacharia has 4 faces, one of which is a lion. Also most people who see their true form have their eyes burn out.

I wonder what about the Fates? They aren't Angels so are they kicked out of Heaven as well?