A Song Of Ice And Fire

I have discovered a most amusing tumblr.

Ah I love those guys.

I tend to agree with them on most things. But every once in a while I think they're being a little too harsh.

But yeah I often think of Show Cersei as Carol especially since she got that Carol Brady haircut.

I'm partial to this one.

Led me to this, which is rather wonderful.

Makes me think about ways they could have better carried on Sansa's character arc while still making her the Bride of Winterfell, and I think there is a way. Go full Darth Sansa, have her act out of necessity as a new Psycho Sidekick to Ramsay, with a dash of the "ego-stroking the entitled narcissist" from the Vale plot and a pinch of is-it-an-act-or-is-it-stockholm-syndrome to parallel her with Theon. Give her an early scene endorsing Theon's torture, giving voice to her own most vengeful thoughts not because it's what she really wants, but because it serves the act. Have her subtly poison Ramsay against Roose to keep them both off-balance (maybe she's the one who puts the idea in his head, or at least encourages it, that his father would rather have a trueborn heir), while bonding with Theon over their mutual captivity and forgiving his past crimes.

Ideally she finds a way to manipulate Ramsay into postponing either their wedding or its consummation, because ick, and ultimately, Theon uses one of Ramsay's own hunting mindgames to arrange her rescue/escape.

edited 1st May '16 5:21:13 AM by johnnye

x4 wow, just reading that for a few minutes made me never want to read that page ever again, it just sound so butthurt, and I don't even watch the show .

edited 1st May '16 9:55:12 AM by Superjohn

To be honest now I'm just wondering how the writers will mangle the canon every week this season.

They are butt-hurt and they admit they are which is nice, honesty is good. I mean their page is called unabashed book snobbery.

Still, they have good points even if they phrase it in a whiny way.

edited 1st May '16 11:38:35 AM by MadSkillz

Just asked on the show thread about the point behind Roose's hollow threat in S 6 E 1 to make his hypothetical forthcoming son his heir ahead of Ramsay. I can't think of any sensible Watsonian reason for that threat, but the most obvious Doylist one is to set up Ramsay killing his half-brother.

Now, in the books, Roose seems fairly unfazed by that possibility, but Barbrey Ryswell reminds us in regard to Domeric that the mother's family can take issue with such things as well. I can't see Walder Frey giving a shit, but I wonder if Frey's successor (TBC) might? It would be a nice irony if the Freys/Bolton alliance was split asunder by... kinslaying.

edited 2nd May '16 5:03:44 AM by johnnye

Good points like complaining about the exclusion of large parts from the widely disliked and unnecessarily convoluted Essos Storyline.

Maybe it wouldn't have been as largely disliked if it had had some of the elements they took out.

@Logo I was thinking more along the lines of the unintentional misogyny of D & D.

Or how illogical some of the show plots are.

I can't see Ramsay killing Roose to take control of the North in the books. No one would actually follow him.

Everyone at Winterfell hates his guts.

The real point is if ramsey know that, he is not the brightest guy at all.

Well if he kills Roose then everyone will turn on him which would be the exact opposite of the show where at least half the North(Show Karstarks) is still with him.

Roose? I was talking about him killing Roose & Walda's child.

Roose only has a few Northern houses following him in the books, all of them of dubious loyalty; most of them are still loyal to the Starks, and even the Karstarks are split between those who will follow Stannis out of loyalty to Ned, and those that follow Roose out of their own power-hunger and self-righteousness.

The Boltons and the Freys both have enough external enemies to take them down, but in both cases it would be far more satisfying to see them destroy themselves/each other from within.

Always surprises me how many people think Sansa is just some dumb kid and always will be (what do they think the point of her story is?). The girl who figured out one of Litllefinger's tricks when a roomful of lords were fooled. That said, I'm also surprised by how many Sansa-fans think Littlefinger is completely unaware of her potential; he's clearly mentoring her on purpose. I actually wouldn't be surprised if, should "Darth Sansa" ultimately beat him at his own game, a small part of Littlefinger is genuinely So Proud of You. It'd fit the twisted lover/father/mentor relationship he has with her.

Finally got round to reading her preview TWOW chapter, too. So she's founding an order of "Winged Knights" loyal to Robert, who she has more influence over than anyone else. She doesn't seem to consider the implications of that, but it could potentially be the start of her actually establishing some hard power of her own (in the form of a bunch of Knights in Shining Armour literally named after a fairytale. Noice.) On the other hand, LF seems to be very keen on the idea and probably quicker to grasp the potential... but notably, he doesn't get to pack the ranks, it's down to a tourney. Really interested to see where this goes (and what Ser Shadrich is planning).

Addendum: That lack of foresight is important, come to think of it. Even if, as I'm speculating, she ends up buying herself a handful of sworn swords, she didn't do it out of naked ambition, but compassion for a kid who's frightened of everything since his mother was killed. An order of knights created to defend the weak.

All of this is probably excessively optimistic, though; and anyway, I rather like the theory that Sansa will be taken to King's Landing and suited by Aegon. Fun fact: the Winged Knight is famous for killing the Griffin King...

edited 2nd May '16 9:09:05 AM by johnnye

@Son Of Sharknado: "The Honeypot Phenomenon" one is really dumb, because the Spylisa theory is actually far, far dumber than everything with Talisa being what it appears to be. For one, it makes Tywin a complete idiot for setting up the Red Wedding rather than sending his spy a vial of poison to kill the King. Then you get into the logistics of how she could be a spy, it would either require one of Tywin's vassals willingly sending one of their daughters to the front lines, or require teaching a commoner to pass as a noble including how to read and write in high Valaryan.

It also seems based on the very modern notion of conflating the nobility and the gentry. In the context of Westeros many will see a noble, even a foreign noble, with out a dime as having higher standing than even the richest common merchant.

Something cool- a Shakespeare or Martin quiz. It's harder than I expected, as there are several Shakespeare quotes that sound like Martinisms- which means props to Martin by extension for getting that style right.

I did pretty well. 25/30.

I didn't realize that GRRM was cribbing off Shakespeare with that Daenerys quote.

Some of them gave themselves away though with the reference to God and the Other.

I think there were harder quotes to make it harder.

The Tyrion actor quote in Mercy comes to mind.

Scored 25/30.

27! Woo.

A lot of the Shakespeare quotes are either quite famous or obviously in verse, which makes it easier than it could be. Though there are quite a lot of lines from ASOIAF* in iambic pentameter, which could make good red herrings.

*EDIT: Or perhaps I should say from A Song of Ice and Fire...

edited 4th May '16 1:24:39 AM by johnnye

So something occurred to me about Sansa's storyline. Myranda Royce is getting very chummy with her, and Catelyn tells Robb that "the junior branch" (Myranda's branch) of House Royce has the strongest claim to Winterfell after the Starks. It's hinted that Bronze Yohn at least knows who she is, although he might not have shared that with his cousin Nestor (for pretty much the following reason):

If they aren't in on the Northern Conspiracy, and believe, as most people do, that Sansa is the last of the Starks, I wonder if they're hoping to marry her off to Albar? Myranda also has her eyes on Harry the Heir, which would give them the Vale into the bargain.

But why didn't Littlefinger set this up himself? Unless he either knows about the other Starks... or doesn't actually intend to go through with marrying Sansa to anyone. Else.

I really wanted to fit "FOR OBERYN!"— The Sand Snakes in there as well, but no room...

edited 4th May '16 11:22:35 AM by johnnye

Nice sig

@john I had to look it up but actually Jocelyn Stark only had 3 daughers with Benedict Royce.

And those 3 daughters each married a Waynwood, a Corbray and perhaps a Templeton but maybe Cat was mistaken and it was another Royce.

The main branch of the Waynwoods are most definitely Stark related. There's emphasis placed on their long faces and brown hair. Stark features.

Funnily enough if Anya's mother wasn't Jocelyn but instead her grandmother which is more likely then that means Harold Hardying is also descended from Jocelyn Stark.

Lyn Corbray might also have a claim to Winterfell but I find that unlikely.

edited 4th May '16 11:26:55 AM by MadSkillz