Bleach

Now, that is not true. Kubo can write good stuff. Bleach wouldn't stay in the tops just because it looked pretty. And that he doesn't love writing manga is imo just insulting to an author who jeopardized his own health for his passion.

I'm not a fan of either Ichigo or Rukia's epilogue looks.

Agreed.

I like Ichigo's (esp on the finale volume cover) but Rukia's has that weird quirk where Kubo somtimes draws long hair like it's extensions.

bandersnitch - I'll amend my statement to "it's not manga anymore", then. It's no secret that drawing cool stuff is his main goal and passion - which is why he chose to make a setting with tons of kimonos, and when he got stuck with the story his gut reaction was to introduce a brand new set of cool characters out of nowhere - and that Shonen Jump's relentless deadlines made him completely disillusioned with the company. And tbf, with manga, you can often attribute good storytelling to the editor handling the work rather than the mangaka in some instances. So my impression is of an artistic wudnerkid who just wants to draw the coolest hypest things imaginable, and manga was his country's main route of doing that, and who then got tired with the downsides of the industry over the years. Including possibly coming up with a story. It happens to a lot of mangaka, unfortunately.

I think it's important to remember that editors generally have a big hand in helping guide the story for SJ manga (for example, many link a change in editor in Naruto to the dip in storytelling quality that underwent in its final stages) and Kubo had a famously bitter relationship with Shonen Jump higher ups (source: https://youtu.be/ACq7tgjHdGA?t=497 ).

So it's entirely possible that he wasn't necessarily less interested or competent in writing/story/characters than your average mangaka and more that he had a rockier relationship with his editors when making it.

I'm not sure quite how relevant that is to what he was saying, Kubo was receiving flack over repeating story beats from partway through the Heuco Mundo arc, long before the series ended.

edited 5th Jun '18 3:36:32 AM by Sigilbreaker26

Really missed the part where he had to end the series due to being seriously ill.

Again, not true at all. The reason he made Bleach in the first place, was because he was fascinated by the concept of death, what exists beyond it and his own fear of death.

"When I was very small, three or four years old, I remember wondering what was going to happen to me or other people when they die. When I saw babies’ images in mothers’ wombs, I wondered where we all came from. For me, life and death are very important themes. There is no life without death. That’s why it’s very important to me." - Tite Kubo

The final arc and the novels show that Kubo thought out a good story and very interesting story and world. Kubo had planed the former for more than five years.

See, you are using that video as your source. That video is one of the worst researched videos I've come across. Even someone like Jaymes Hanson does better research. Like 90% of it is not true. Kubo doesn't have a bad relationship with Jump. Jump wanted him to continue the manga. If their relationship was so bad, they wouldn't have asked him to make a one shot, collaborate with the live action movie or create an art/data book and a potential little sequel.

And while the Hueco Mundo arc was at times repetitive, I don't think the same could apply to the Fullbring arc and the final arc.

I'm talking about this whole going into Kubo's motivations and perceived burn out. Making all these assumptions seems silly while ignoring what we actually DO know, which is that Kubo had health issues.

I had noticed previously that, every single winter, for the past several years, Kubo ended up hospitalised. It started one year with pneumonia, and then almost every year afterwards, he'd tweet that he was hospitalised with a 'cold' and the manga usually took a break for about a week to allow him to recuperate. This was long before we knew the truth about his health.

I was flicking through Volume 67 the other day (first published: April 2015) and noticed the personal message at the beginning of the volume. I don't usually read them, but I remember it because of the nature of this thread's conversation (Viz translation):

He directly quotes the author's feelings on the matter, and just because their relationship is a little better now doesn't mean that it wasn't rocky while Bleach was airing.

edited 5th Jun '18 1:05:38 PM by Sigilbreaker26

And how is that proof that their relationship is rocky? Hell, that same interview revealed that Kubo will change his content whenever the editor tells him to change something, but simply he will change it into something different. And even if Kubo had a rocky relationship with his editor, he could simply get a new one. He, like most senior mangaka had multiple editors over the years and Kubo always spoke fondly of them in his interviews. I said it before, but I will say it again. This video from Super Eye Patch Wolf is one of the worst researched videos I've ever seen with flimsy evidence that's been spinned to confirm to his bias.

Edit: I didn't knew he had a page on this site.

edited 5th Jun '18 2:44:28 PM by bandersnitch

What bias?

You're throwing out some pretty serious accusations here about lack of research but nothing you've said disproves the idea that Kubo chafed under SJ's editorial policy. (Quite frankly I'm shocked more mangaka don't considering the restrictions and the workload). SPW isn't the only video I've seen about Bleach that holds that position.

edited 5th Jun '18 2:53:26 PM by Sigilbreaker26

Let's see:

And many people also still believe that Bleach got cancelled, even though that one has been long disproven. Two wrongs don't make a right and neither do hundred.

edited 5th Jun '18 4:13:38 PM by bandersnitch

First of all, the video is not made by someone who is trying to argue that Bleach is bad, it is made by someone trying to argue why Bleach got less popular later on.

1. Your twitter link is broken and your interview translation on Tumblr was posted one year after the video was made.

6. You're making an in-universe argument to justify an out-of-universe criticism. Of course in-universe Ichigo's behaviour makes sense, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's compelling out-of-universe. His problem is with the end result, not the internal logic of the character.

edited 5th Jun '18 4:16:47 PM by Sigilbreaker26

So, the link should work now.

And? Just because the interview was released one year later, doesn't invalidate it or make the video more valid. It shows that he just presented his speculation as facts.

He presented his facts as facts based on what Kubo said. There is now new information that might dispute that argument. He did not have access to that at the time.

edited 5th Jun '18 4:20:28 PM by Sigilbreaker26

I sort of wish Ichigo's apparent desire to become a doctor had been reflected in the story prior

In a setting where healing magic exists you'd think he'd be all into that

Which still didn't make them facts, just how he interpreted them. The sources of that video never stated that Kubo had issues with his editors. It only what Kubo thinks about things like artistic freedom. That this caused issues with the editor is something SPW simply assumed without having any actual proof.

And while he is not trying to argue that Bleach got bad, his argument is basically that Bleach became less popular because Kubo got lazy/frustrated/lost his passion and because it got bad. And as I already said, he had no proof for the former, while the later is very subjective. I for example believe that Bleach got better after the time skip.

He kind argues though that Ichigo's lack of goal is an in-universe criticism. He gave Ichigo beating up a bunch of punks as him being compelling early on. I've to wonder what about that was compelling. There is the thematic of Ichigo having to come to terms with his fears, his failures, his selfishness and the downsides of his messiah complex. I think coming to term with your own character as compelling as becoming the Hokage or the king of the pirates.

That being said in almost all Shonen, the MC is one of the weaker aspects. Bleach is no exception to that. Same for Naruto and One Piece.

Someone's just moved Renji's entry from the Characters.Bleach Gotei 13 Squads 1 To 7 page to the Characters.Bleach Ichigos Companions page. As far as I can tell there's been no discussion on this reorganisation. Is everyone okay with the change, or should it be reverted?

Reverted.

If nothing else it's a bit of an unnecessary spoiler.

Okay, I've given it a couple of days to see if there are any other responses. I've reverted the example with an edit reason suggesting that a discussion occur here if there is an argument to be made for Renji being placed on the Ichigo's Companions page.

Several Bleach/Kubo news:

Kubo's going to bring out a new One Shot. It's called "Burn the witch" and will be 62 pages long. It will come out in Jump #33 around the 14th July. Uniquely the protagonists will be two girls. One of them looks like somewhere between female Byakuya and Bambietta. The other looks more unique. The key words are "Witches, dragons, and reverse London". While it is possible that this will be serialized, I wouldn't bank on it. https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2018-06-27/bleach-tite-kubo-unveils-burn-the-witch-1-shot-manga/.133493

In other news, the Bleach Live action movie will premiere in the USA. I don't know where and when though. But it will be this summer. Orihime, Urahara, the Kurosakis, Tatsuki, Kon and even Chad will appear. The storyline seems to have changed more. Renji will be involved with the spider Hollow for example and his fight with Uryuu will have more focus. Grand Fisher will apparently attack Ichigo's school and may also fight Byakuya and Renji. Byakuya does an Aizen in the movie. According to critics this will be the movie of the year.

Bleach will be represented in Jump force. Confirmed are Aizen, Ichigo and Rukia. Ichigo will be in his TYBW clothes and certain characters will appear sometimes when you use him (most likely Kon, since he was in Ichigo' pocket). It is possible that important Bleach character will appear, though it seems it will be either Uryuu, Grimmjow, Renji or Yhwach.

The art/data book Bleach Jet will reveal the theme songs of all the characters in Bleach. Jump has so far revealed the theme songs of the Gotei 13 and most of the Arrancar, plus those that were already revealed before (minus Ginjou for some reason).

It is still unknown what Kubo's other one shot will be, but we know it is related to the Bleach movie. It might just some kind of recap of the SS arc though. It is likewise unknown what the little Bleach sequel, Kubo has planed, will be.

And finally Narita has revealed that he almost finished writing Can't fear your own world. Only the last scene is missing. By his own admission, the project became bigger than he realized. He says that from the size it will be around four to five Durarara/Baccano novels.

Edit: Apparently "Burn the witch" is going to be a romcom and possibly Yuri.

Edited by bandersnitch on Jun 28th 2018 at 9:44:01 AM

Pfft. I'm sure it will be.

…A yuri story? In the Jump? Not that I mind, but that'd be surprising. >.>