Bleach

I don't think YYH's ending was as bad as the problems that ran all the way through it.

I did think Raizen was a badass.

YYH also had a tendency to shortchange Kuwabara, who was easily the best character of the big four. Though of course it's hardly alone among shonen in doing stuff like that.

Yeah after Arha pointed out his chauvinism and sexism I lost a lot of like for Kuwabara

Also Kurama is clearly best boy, he's brutal as fuck

edited 10th Jul '17 5:37:52 PM by Saiga

Remind me where he's sexist? All I remember is that he's really protective of Yukina.

The way he acts around, and treats, Yukina is his sexism. Maybe it's the story's sexism and not his own but either way his behaviour is obnoxious and dated.

Kurama was the only one of the main characters that I really liked. Kuwabara was my least favorite.

I liked Hiei because he was an unrepentant psychopath, and stayed an unrepentant psychopath. Kuwabara gets points for being a bro though, his sexism doesn't take away from that.

YYH will always be pretty special to me because the Dark Tournament's one of my favorite manga arcs ever.

The thing that bugs me about Hiei is that he was a vicious murderer, then he was a grouchy ally who has pretty much completely mellowed out by the end of Toguro's arc, then he was suddenly super distant and unhelpful for no reason during Sensui's arc.

IIIRC, he was basically on parole during the Dark Tournament and didn't really have a choice, and afterward had no reason to help out Yusuke after that. In other words, he's a bit of a selfish asshole, but hey, it's staying true to being a demon at least.

Also, he was kind of meant to be a one-off villain but then Popularity Power kicked in.

Dark Tournament will always be hype, no matter what.

Dark Tournament, Soul Society, Enies Lobby, and the last parts of FMA are the gold standard of shonen arcs to me.

I also have a soft spot for the Buu Saga despite a lot of people saying it's underwhelming.

edited 10th Jul '17 6:27:35 PM by HamburgerTime

Dark tournament just dragged for me and I couldn't bring myself to like Toguro at all. He was a giant brick with a frowny face drawn on it, then the story tried to pretend like he was a compelling character and not a mass murderer.

Sagyo was pretty good though and I liked Kurama's fights.

edited 10th Jul '17 6:53:11 PM by Arha

A Bleach thing I find amusing: the two guys that "fix" Grand Fisher after his first defeat are clearly framed as intimidating characters, with their faces framed in shadow and a strong implication they're far stronger than Fisher himself (and the one with the blindfold berates the other, indicating a hierarchy between them). When we actually get to formally meet them, though? Turns out they're Aisslinger and D-Roy, among the lowest on the Arrancar pecking order.

I wonder if Kubo had a different idea for them originally.

edited 10th Jul '17 7:59:27 PM by HamburgerTime

Probably. What they turn Grand Fisher into looks nothing like his design when he shows up again.

Even so, they both still are stronger than him, even if they end up amounting to nothing.

Oh, I totally know they are stronger than him, but they're clearly framed as Actually A Threat in that scene, even though by the time they take to the field the heroes have already long surpassed them.

In real life, collaborators did not have to be on one side only to end up collaborating with the opposite side. They only need to have the possibility of not being allied to the opposing side but choose - for whatever reason (and sometimes no genuine choice) - to engage in activity that helps that opposing side instead of refusing to contribute whatever that useful service may be.

Starrk is from a race of beings that is not naturally allied to Shinigami (even rogue Shinigami), never mind a Shinigami that conquered Hueco Mundo and defeated Hueco Mundo's native leader. He chose to side with the conqueror because that conqueror gave him something he desperately yearned for (friends who are powerful enough to remain in his presence without dying).

Yes, precisely. However, many of them had other reasons for being defined as 'evil'. Starrk didn't have an 'other'. He only had the collaborator factor. The rest I covered in my previous post when I mentioned 'personal reason'.

edited 12th Jul '17 1:10:23 PM by Wyldchyld

Still feels to be reaching.

I could see him being evil more for his inability to kill his foes because of his loneliness. That he doesn't have the strength of will necessary to finish those who threaten the people he cares about.

edited 12th Jul '17 1:04:46 PM by OmegaRadiance

Well, I get that a lot. I've got no problem with that.

Your main point is certainly a very interesting take on that and I think that's worth exploring given the nature of the Shounen genre — a man being unable to follow through on threats to those he cares about is indeed considered a problem in this genre.

I don't think that. Now, whenever I say that, people often make the mistake of thinking I'm saying the rest of the manga was as good as the Soul Society Arc. I'm not. I'm saying the reverse. I do not think the Soul Society Arc was anywhere near as good as many in the fandom do. I therefore see very little quality difference between the Soul Society Arc and later arcs because I see the same problems that afflict later arcs running rampant through the Soul Society Arc.

Hell, those problems were running rampant even before the Soul Society Arc. Some of them were even present in Chapter 1.

He didn't have the Arrancar concept finalised until the end of the Soul Society Arc. He knew how the end the manga right at the beginning, and he was plotting the final arc while he was writing the Soul Society Arc, but he hadn't fully decided on the middle of the story: he said in interviews that all he knew at the time was that he wanted there to be something that was the opposite of Ichigo (Ichigo becoming powerful by donning a mask versus opponents who become powerful by removing a mask).

My guess is that's probably why the shadowy "20 Vasto Lordes" scene cut from Hitsugaya explaining the Menos power levels include a couple of body shapes that do not correspond to any of the ten Espada (or even their fracciones) that we finally meet.

edited 12th Jul '17 1:32:19 PM by Wyldchyld

Missstormcaller has now translated part five of the novel http://missstormcaller.tumblr.com/post/162965370737/cant-fear-your-own-world-part-5-full-translation

There are many differences between the earlier rough translations and this much more accurate one. The most important one are this imo:

- The events of Spirits are forever with you were made canon.

- Rudbonn has dreams of uniting all of Hueco Mundo and all Arrancar under one ruler. Preferably under Aizen, but Harribel is fine too. He also has gotten much stronger since his fight with Rukia. He now can bury his roots underground in order to prevent them from being frozen. His production rate increased significantly with several thousand mooks per second. It's also revealed how he produces them. He absorbs the Reishi in Hueco Mundo to create them. His mooks are also fighting more tactically and are able to use Synchronized Swarming to create constructs like tentacles and fight Bambietta with them. Yeah, Bambietta would almost have become a victim of tentacle porn. Girl can't take a breath.

- Bambietta's zombification did not make her lose her intellect and mind. She is completely capable of rational thoughts and has her own will. Or used to. Giselle bashing her head seems to have left her with some brain damage. Though Giselle using her blood can fix that, but she thinks that Bambietta is cuter that way and says that she is going to fix her later. The novel emphasizes just how strange, bizarre and scary Giselle is and how dangerous a loose canon as her could be. Liltotto has to keep an eye on her, lest she unleashes a zombie apocalypse.

- The Wandenreich has a HQ in the human world. Haschwalth's aide rescued many Quincy too. It's possible that some Sternritter like Bazz-B were also rescued, while other Sternritter are in Mayuri's lab probably waiting to be revived by someone. She doesn't know that Lille turned into a bunch of birds. It's possible that there is a connection between the aide and the religious sect. Liltotto also has some kind of retreat in the human world.

- Liltotto shows a more tender and compassionate side, not just for the Femritter, but also for other Quincy. Except for Bambietta and Na Na Na and Pepe. She also has the ability to use the abilities of those she eats parts of. She can use the Love and is able to use a poison version of Lichtregen after digesting some of Loly's poison.

- Tokinada wants to rule over Hueco Mundo and have the Espada as his subjects. The little child's full name is Ubiginu Hikone. That child is basically the Cell of Bleach. They are able to use Hierro and the Reiatsu of them has been compared to Ichigo, Shinji, Giselle's zombies, an Arrancar, Ayon, and some of the Sternritter.

Gigi is cute!

I figured liltoto didnt like them from the way she reacts to them/their deaths/zombificiation. Bambietta used to murder Quincy mooks after sex too.

The thing I found interesting and a bit of a shame, was that the majority of the chapter was told from Liltotto's POV who is as perplexed by Giselle as the audience. It was nice seeing more of Liltotto, but I hope that future chapters will elaborate on Giselle's view of the world and what makes her tick. She so far is rather enigmatic, but according to the advertisement, she and Bambietta will play a big role in the novels. Same for Grimmjow and Harribel.

I forgot to mention four things:

- Liltotto is actually willing to negotiate things with the Gotei in order to get the bodies of her comrades back. She thinks they should be able to discuss things peacefully thanks to their previous team-up, but believes that thanks to Giselle zombifying the Shinigami in the war and Mayuri's personality things would not come to an agreement.

- Apparently how people taste depend on what Liltotto thinks of their personalities. At the very least there seems to be a connection between taste and personality. Pepe tasted disgusting. Ruddbon appeared for Liltotto as more tasty than the tasteless Calaveras. Loly tasted quite good and spicy.

- Bambietta is able to make some interesting observations and the novel shows how behind her usual facade Bambietta is just scarred and submissive little girl.

- It's implied Ryuken has a Schrift and Vollständig.

edited 14th Jul '17 12:15:49 PM by bandersnitch

I also notice that, when Liltotto lists the powerful people who protect Ichigo, Ryuken is on that list.

Her thoughts seem to hint that there's something we don't know about Echt and their power, given that Ryuken being an Echt appears to directly connect to why she has him on the list of 'sinister forces' surrounding Ichigo.

The way she singles it out makes me wonder how many - or how few - of the Sternritter were genuinely Echt.

However, since these are Liltotto's thoughts and perspective of things, we might want to be cautious. After all, she also implies that Yhwach didn't want to perform Auswählen on Ryuken and Uryu. We do know that Yhwach did apparently try to perform Auswählen on Uryu but Uryu was seemingly immune to it (if that's not the case, Yhwach certainly went out of his way to make Uryu think that, anyway), yet Liltotto's thoughts indicate she believes it was more a preference on Yhwach's part than an inability... she could be right, or she could simply not know Yhwach tried and failed to perform it on Uryu.

I've had this question for the whole of the final arc, but this novel makes me ask it again — is Uryu's immunity explicitly part of his Schrift, or an Ishida family thing? And if it's not, why would Yhwach find it preferable to leave Ryuken alive if he's so fussy about what Quincies are of use to him alive or dead.

edited 14th Jul '17 1:19:04 PM by Wyldchyld

Also on Gigi being a Hermaphrodite that I missed in the posts before, it would also make the males who compared themselves to her make more sense because they tend to toe the line between perceived concepts of gender. Charlotte is a magical girl, Mayuri has been depicted as a Baphomet by Kubo(A hermaphrodite creature of legend), and Yumichika being flamboyant and obsessed with beauty.

Granted it does make me question more about Yumichika amongst said lot because besides his looks and love of beauty hes not like those three from what little weve seen of him.

Well, in Japanese history, men could practice the Way of Women, the Way of Boys, and/or the Beautiful Way.

• Way of Women: sexual relationships with women.
• Way of Boys: sexual relationships with boys. Heavily romanticised in storytelling.
• The Beautiful Way: sexual relationships with women and boys. Considered the superior 'Way'.

These don't equate to the modern concepts of 'heterosexual', 'homosexual' or 'bisexual'.

edited 14th Jul '17 1:37:39 PM by Wyldchyld