Ok it was mentioned there is not a thread for Law Enforcement Officers (LEO for short)and other similar jobs for discussion.
This is for discussing the actual jobs, ranks, training, culture, relations to military bodies that exist, and any other variety of topics that can arise pertaining to the World of Policing.
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
It wouldn't have mattered what tool he used.
Who watches the watchmen?
A procrastination in of itself
Why?
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
People have died of heart attacks after being tased. And truncheons are perfectly capable of turning people into vegetables. They're referred to as "less lethal" weapons for a reason.
edited 14th Aug '15 6:03:04 AM by Krieger22
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
A procrastination in of itself
Sure but it's still much less likely to result in a situation where somebody dies. Just because we can't have a perfect weapon that never kills doesn't mean we shouldn't try and use less-lethal weapons.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
The Mod with the Migraine
The law in the night
Besides it isn't like even if he did use those, there wouldn't be people screaming POWLICE BREWTALITY.
The attitude the crowd showed them is one of the things I had one LEO friend complaining about, like everyone who sees you in an uniform suddenly turn into idiots who are against everything you do. He swears some people have been uncooperative with him because they had a desire to stick it to the man.
edited 14th Aug '15 6:17:43 AM by AngelusNox
Inter arma enim silent leges
A procrastination in of itself
So? If we only did things that nobody on the internet would get angry about we'd do nothing.
If he'd used one of those the likely scenario is that he'd have been fine, a belligerent suspect woudl have been detained and the only people upset would have been a few hardcore nuts.
I don't see how the logic of "some people are gonna be dicks and scream "police brutality" even if a situation is handled right, so we might as well just shoot first ask questions never" isn't the exact same as "some cops will scream "political correctness gone mad" if all we do is ask them to stop racially profiling blacks, so we might as well just disband all police forces".
edited 14th Aug '15 6:27:36 AM by Silasw
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
The law in the night
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The scenario given by the article didn't state he refrained from using his gun, it said he refrained from using force, that includes less than lethal force, but since he is a detective we are assuming he only had his service gun.
In all fairness, someone who is dumb enough to use charge and physical force against a cop isn't someone that would be easily subdued, specially when said cop is alone with no backup.
The problem, my LEO friend has it that he is gets shit every week from people who'd be better off if they cooperated and from random people who treat him like he is one of the cops who beat teens at protests, he said to me that after a while you don't assume people are in good faith or have good intentions towards police officers, because if you do and you end up being wrong it may as well cost your life.
Inter arma enim silent leges
God-Mayor of Sim-Kind
Well at least the detective had the judgement not to use force, which is quite a suprise in the trend of "police officer kills suspect: police brutality is implied" news. But really? Why kick him while he's down like that on social media?
Answer no master, never the slave Carry your dreams down into the grave Every heart, like every soul, equal to break
There are too many incidents of law enforcement officers abusing their authority for "just trust in police and cooperate" to be well received. And too many incidents of the higher-ups and colleagues of said officers covering for them instead of cleaning house (I'm speaking of the US, since it's where this is taking place). There are assholes involved here, but the police have a lot of work to earn back some trust from the citizens.
A procrastination in of itself
Wait so detectives are only issued with guns? Not anything else? Why is that?
Also the problem with
Is that the reverse also applies
In the end he may well be a good cop, but the people he's dealing with have no way of knowing that. He's got stuff (gun, pepper spray, baton, training and one would hope a stab vest or similar) to help him fend of a bad faith/bad intentions person, they've got nothing to help them fend of a bad faith/bad intentions cop.
Because social media is full of assholes.
edited 14th Aug '15 7:08:39 AM by Silasw
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
The law in the night
Maybe because detectives are not expected to do any arresting, not alone at least.
Yeah, see the problem. People don't trust cops and cops can't trust people, this mutual distrusts ends up becoming a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy when it comes police and public relations, getting cops to be part of the community also has to include the community accepting cops for that to work. That also includes basic decency from both sides.
Inter arma enim silent leges
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
Even if he had tasted the guy or thumped his limbs with a baton given the attitude of the public and media at this point it wouldn't have mattered how much restraint he showed. The attitude of the public around him aptly demonstrated that.
Who watches the watchmen?
The Mod with the Migraine
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Prior to the thread's shift in focus to cops shooting black teenagers, I've had to argue against enough Police Brutality claims in the media in this very thread to agree wholeheartedly with .
edited 14th Aug '15 7:43:26 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
The law in the night
They should at least use maximum restraining force including lethal against people who are dumb enough to attack them.
The problem on the cops Po V isn't just people antagonizing them, their problem is when people antagonizing the LEO turn violent and aggressive towards and he needs to use lethal and potentially lethal force to subdue them.
The LEO doesn't know who will become violent until they do. Forcing cops to act preemptively against antagonizing and uncooperative suspects or risking getting killed or going to the hospital if they don't. The former puts the suspect at risk and the later puts the cop at risk.
The problem arises when due to bias, poor character or lack of training a cop uses force against people because he: misread a gesture (training), assumed the suspect will become violent regardless of what the cop does (bias) or gets jumpy when someone doesn't respect his authoritah
(poor character). Those usually tend to intersect.
The same also happens to regular civilians towards cops.
edited 14th Aug '15 8:00:32 AM by AngelusNox
Inter arma enim silent leges
God-Mayor of Sim-Kind
As entertaing as they are on "World's Dumbest..." I wonder just how accurate field sobriety tests are.
Answer no master, never the slave Carry your dreams down into the grave Every heart, like every soul, equal to break
Plain clothes dectectives don't carry tasers or batons. They also don't wear vests a lot which I think is stupid.
Some departments have rules against what dectectives can carry or not.
It could be the gun was the only option he had.
My father was in dectectives for only a few months. He was only allowed his gun.
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
@Tobias Drake: No complaints here. One distinction a lot of BLM advocates have been trying to get across is that "black lives matter" doesn't mean "black lives get a free pass, even if they're violent criminals". Unfortunately, the latter is how it often gets read. The fact that the majority of incidents involving police brutality and slayings have been with unarmed individuals, black or otherwise, has been so alarming, even from other LEO professionals.
Now, you guys may not have heard about it, but there was this one time with some sort of crazed black separatist something-or-other jumped out of his car with an AK and a Glock. Most black people didn't exactly complain when he got lit up. If I recall he had a pretty nasty record of aggravated assault, illegal firearms possession, terroristic threatening and stalking. I believe his wife moved far away from him and changed her name.
No, I'm not talking about the DC sniper, though many believe he was a copycat criminal.
So yeah. It's not about making everyone look like saints when they are assailed by law enforcement professionals, but about shedding like on people who are essentially getting the book thrown at them for relatively minor infractions.
A lot of detectives themselves prefer not to carry body armor, though I admit I don't have a source for this. Just an opinion from some of the jiujitsu guys I know who work as investigators.
edited 14th Aug '15 8:47:21 AM by Aprilla
It is hot and hard to hide in a suit.
Just giving reason why the average detective will react different than the average patrolman.
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
A procrastination in of itself
Why is getting a positive reaction out of the media being treated as the only reason to use proportional force?
The point of using proportional force isn't to look good, it's to avoid killing people unless absolutely necessary.
People are acting like "use proportional force and then get shit on by the media" and "shoot the guy instantly and get shit on by the media" are the same, no they're not, one of them results in a person not dying, isn't that reason enough to go with it?
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Problem is that guy didn't use proportional force. He really did poorly and is lucky the guy didn't shoot him and steal his gun.
Which goes back to poor training and maintenance.
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
The Mod with the Migraine
Texas sheriff deputies perform strip-search on woman in the middle of a parking lot. Emphasis mine.
After finding nothing, she said, he called a female officer out to search Corley. "They took me around to the side of my car, and she tells me, 'Pull your pants down,'" Corley told CNN. Corley, who was handcuffed, said she told the female deputy that she didn't have any underwear on. The female deputy replied that it didn't matter, pulled Corley's pants down and then told her to bend over, Corley told CNN.
"I bent over and she proceeded to stick her fingers in me, and I popped up immediately and I told her, 'No! What are you doing? You can't do that to me,' she said. The deputy told her that she could do what she wanted because it was a narcotics search, according to Corley. After Corley resisted, another female deputy was apparently called to complete the search.
Her attorney, Samuel Cammack III, said that what the deputies did in the middle of a parking lot was unconstitutional. "It wasn't a strip search, it was a manual cavity search," he told CNN. The Harris County Sheriff's Office said in a statement that it was unable to comment on the matter "until the completion of an ongoing internal affairs investigation, and pending the status of civil litigation."
"We anticipate that the office of Inspector General will share their findings with Sheriff Ron Hickman in accordance with state law and civil service procedures in the near future," the statement said. But Harris County Sheriff's spokesperson Thomas Gilleland told CNN affiliate KTRK last week that the deputies did everything as they should. Gilleland said one deputy wrote in the report that Corley said they could "strip search her if I needed to." Corley denied that she had given them her consent.
Cammack said the district attorney's office has dropped charges against his client. According to KRTK, Corley had been charged with two misdemeanors: resisting arrest and possession of marijuana. CNN wasn't immediately able to reach the district attorney's office for comment early Friday.
United Earth
Didn't we have a discussion earlier on how smelling of marihuana is probable cause in states where it ain't legal?
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Isn't that kind of situation exactly what truncheons or tasers are for? A situation where force is needed but deadly force would be foolish and excessive?
And yeah those bystanders are assholes.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran