Rational Twilight: Luminosity

I don't quite understand why Elspeth can undo the relationships that Chelsea has created, but cannot rebuild those she's destroyed. It seems like a simple extension of what she's already doing—just push at herself how untrue it is that she, for example, doesn't love Bella. Help me understand, here?

I suppose, really, that it all depends on how Alicorn defines love. Is it just a feeling? Is it a devotion to the best interest of another? Is it the relationship in and of itself, the memories you form and the familiarity?

And now it makes so much more sense for Chelsea to be a sociopath.

But the truth is that Elspeth doesn't love Bella currently. The relationship between a mother and child is not entirely based upon facts and evidence, part of it is simply, "I love this person." The relationship is now gone. Elspeth might be able to rebuild, say, respect, the way she respect and admires Carlisle. But she loved Carlisle, despite having almost no time with him.

I agree that she should be able to rebuild relationships that were actually built, though not to their previous level. For instance, she should (IMO) feel something important towards Bella, her caretaker for most of her life, but not necessarily a child's love for her mother. She's rebuilding the relationship, not just remembering she has it, and so has to develop it almost entirely from memory. It'll never be quite the same.

Or maybe Elspeth just needs to ask Magic, "Do I love Mama?" and it'll all go fwoosh, but I doubt it.

edited 4th Feb '11 6:16:14 AM by RedWren

That's actually what I expected initially. I dunno, it just seems a little arbitrary.

I feel that the best way to understand Chelsea's power is to think it ias a form of memory erasing/manipulation.

When she *snips* the relationship, she simples erases information, limited to the kind "how do I feel to this person". Elspeth power is great to find the truth, but it isn't all-knowning and can't see what it isn't no longer there

That makes a bit more sense. *sigh* I'm still not entirely happy with the explanation, but part of that's probably just me.

If you are talking about wanting that Elspeth magically find a way to "cure" the effects of chelsea, well, I can relate, but won't deny that it might be impossible.

thought, it only really hit me when Bella find out what happened

Elspeth being able to undo Chelsea's effects at this point would actually be a bit of an Ass Pull. I don't like the fact that it's basically permanent (unless they somehow force Chelsea to rebuild all the relationships she cut, which would be unlikely and would feel...fake, somehow), but that's not what's bothering me. What's bothering me is that the ability to undo Chelsea's power in one direction looks like it should naturally translate to being able to undo it in the other direction. I have a partial explanation, and I can certainly swallow it, but I'm not entirely satisfied.

It doesn't matter.

Just tossing out a suggestion: Try going through a relationship and building a logical reason to love someone. I can think of logical reasons not to, since, well, cold-blooded torture etc., but thinking through why I should...I'm drawing a blank. I have a roughly even split of good and bad memories with some family members, and I still love them.

There is also something like... "Emotional Inertia", is easy to love someone with a greater intensity if you love that person with a greater intensity for several years. I think it is very well elustrate how Elspeth "knows" that she has several reasons to love her family, but it isn't the same thing than actually had loved her family for her entire life.

But again, we shouldn't completely rule out the possibility that Elspeth would be able to regain her relationships, but I wouldn't think it would make a lot of sense.

Edit: Also, where is the friday update?

edited 5th Feb '11 12:26:40 PM by Bluelantern2814

Alicorn missed her Friday update! The hatred burns through my veins and seeps into my keyboard!!!

[/sarcasm]

I suspect that updates are going to be pulled back a bit pretty soon. Probably to two times a week. As I believe she explained earlier, if she has an updating schedule to keep up to than she'll write, but she'll pull it back if she needs to.

Honestly though, the fact that she writes about 4000 words three times a week still amazes me. I had difficulty keeping up with Na No Wri Mo and that was an average of 1,667 words a day. I can do it, but I find that if I'm writing in a completely linear fashion than I get stuck wondering what's next so I skip around to future scenes.

With this in mind, how much of the story is planned ahead of time? Do you just have a basic idea what's going to happen? (Elspeth meets wolves, gets captured by Volturi, escapes) or do you plan out what happens chapter by chapter or what?

edited 5th Feb '11 1:24:49 PM by Hermiethefrog

If you subscribed to the RSS feed, you would have gotten a warning about the Friday missing update. I spent Friday moving house from Connecticut to North Carolina. I plan to double update tomorrow to make it up. I have no intention of altering the schedule beyond this one delay due to extenuating circumstances.

I don't plan that much. I have ideas of things that I want to make happen, and then I write to bridge from what I already have to those things, but the details I mostly come up with no more than a couple of days in advance.

Too late, you already unleashed Hermie Amphibious fury! There is nothing to stop her now.

edited 6th Feb '11 11:49:21 AM by Bluelantern2814

You know, I keep saying I'm going to subscribe to that RSS feed but I never do. I'm going to now.

Ah, interesting. In that case I once again am amazed at the amount of writing you do.

Chapter 39: Hider, Chapter 40: Jumper

Say, Alicorn, what happens if the imprint of a wolf is a lesbian? Would the impulse be the same as for Elspeth—i.e., really strong friendship? Would it just not happen?

I rule that a lesbian would be fallen-in-love-with normally assuming she was an adult emotionally ready for *a* romantic relationship generically speaking.

Again, I must congratulate you for un-creepifying the wolvensteins... that's awesome.

I rule that a lesbian would be fallen-in-love-with normally assuming she was an adult emotionally ready for *a* romantic relationship generically speaking.

lets hope that hipothetical wolf finds Girl on Girl Is Hot.

In a reverse way.

Could a Vampire mate or Imprint be able to convince they Vampire Mate/Wolf to act in a way against they regular sexuality... you know?

edit:

The rebelion will face problems with the whole "who is going to be the next queen/king" thing

edited 8th Feb '11 8:12:23 AM by Bluelantern2814

For some reason I keep going to the idea of Elspeth ending up as the leader. She's young, yes, but she technically has the experiences of dozens of vampires at her recall and her ability would be great for diplomacy.

But of course there's the fact that she's young, she's physically weaker than most vampires and might not be taken as seriously as a result. So it's probably not going to happen.

Then again, I seem to remember one of Bella's earlier plans being that she would eventually out all the vampires True Blood style so that immortality was an option for more people. If they go that route than Elspeth would be very useful in that she wouldn't be as intimidating to humans since she's half one. And again, the diplomacy point.

Elspeth for president!

Well, that doesn't impossible per see, she is probably the most even balanced person to all sides of the conflict: she won't betray/enslave the wolves because of jacob, I doubt she would do anything against humans despite not being one and even with Chelsea, I don't think she would try to hurt her mother and family if only because she would think that her pre-Chelsea self wouldn't. Her power of Enhanced Charisma (Flaw: Limited to can't be dishonest) would make her at least trustworthy.

Even she isn't in charge herself, she should be a important figure, Siobham looks somehow fond of Elspeth (unless I am mistaken or she is tricking everyone), due to her knowledge and power, I wouldn't be surprise to see Elspeth as role as high as the second in command, if Bella becomes the Queen, that pretty much turns Elspeth in a princess of sorts, ditto to Carlisle in the unlikely event that he does become King.

Thinking about it, having more of one ruler could be the trick? Siobham is The Tactician, Elspeth is The Voice and Bella as The Shield?

EDIT:

Also, do the grand-daughters of a king count as princesses?

edited 9th Feb '11 3:19:28 AM by Bluelantern2814

So Razi and Pera being mates is rather...convenient. Is this an example of Siobhan's power?

Also, I should think that the king's granddaughters would be princesses. Certainly they'd have some sort of title.

Mates seem to be extremely common though, it was gonna happen eventually.

But honestly, the mate idea creeps me out. It seems a bit like Mate or Die except they're vampires and immortal so they can't die for the most part. Yes, I'd be in love with the person and happier than I'd ever be in my entire life. But it'd just happen. Bam, no control over it. And if anything happens to the mate the entire point of my life pretty much would disappear. Scary scary thought.

At least Bella was able to avert this by developing her relationship with Edward. Yes, he initially had the mate thing going on but she actually took time to get to know and fall in love with him. Her feelings were legitimate before she was changed and the mate feeling was returned.

So Razi and Pera being mates is rather...convenient. Is this an example of Siobhan's power?

That din't ocurred to me. I honestly not entirely convinced that Siobhan's power is that magical (if it is a magical power at all), I see more as a sort of inteligence, at any rate, it is a interesting explanation.

Also, I should think that the king's granddaughters would be princesses. Certainly they'd have some sort of title.

I always supposed that they would get married with lords, dukes, barons and whatever, taking the title with them. I understood that prince and pricesses equals "has a high chance to become king"

Mates seem to be extremely common though, it was gonna happen eventually.

The Denali triplets spent more than seven centuries (don't know they age, but they are older than Carlisle) without finding one.

though, I guess it happens more easily today, where comunication and travel makes easier to vampires to comunicate and travel to find out.

I do wonder if it would possible to set up a "vampire dating site", would a regular photograph be enough?

But honestly, the mate idea creeps me out. It seems a bit like Mate Or Die except they're vampires and immortal so they can't die for the most part. Yes, I'd be in love with the person and happier than I'd ever be in my entire life. But it'd just happen. Bam, no control over it. And if anything happens to the mate the entire point of my life pretty much would disappear. Scary scary thought.

At least Bella was able to avert this by developing her relationship with Edward. Yes, he initially had the mate thing going on but she actually took time to get to know and fall in love with him. Her feelings were legitimate before she was changed and the mate feeling was returned.

I agree with you, in fact, the "realistic" building of Bella and Edward relationship was something that really liked about this story, as well, I also liked Elspeth though about how damaged her mother was after Edward *death*.

edited 9th Feb '11 7:25:12 PM by Bluelantern2814

Chapter 41: Timer

edited 10th Feb '11 8:05:50 AM by Alicorn