Type-Moon: Fate/stay night, Tsukihime, and Kara no Kyoukai discussion

I found this short story by Nasu. It's called Tsuki no Sango (Coral of the Moon). It's not part of the Nasuverse, but it's worth reading. Nasu seems to have a fondness for apocalyptic romances.

Um...about Shirou's skill in actually using the swords, that's debatable. He specifically points out that both he and Gil are not really proficient at using the weapons they're pulling out; and that if Gil could actually properly use any of them he wouldn't have been able to match him with his projected copies. Ea is the only Noble Phantasm that Gil really knows how to use (though there doesn't seem to be much skill involved in "point blasty end at enemy, push IWIN button").

edited 10th Apr '12 10:10:10 AM by ashnazg

I would imagine that that's more a matter of 'mastery of the individual weapon's abilities' rather than any measure of skill with a generic sword.

They don't know how to use the specific NP's to the best of their abilities, but they do know how to fight with swords. Gil at least should know a few other weapons as well.

Doesn't Shirou learn the technique behind the sword skill as well when he projects a sword? I think it's mentioned somewhere that he does.

By the way, Mahoutsukai no Yoru release is tomorrow (at least if you live at GMT +8:00).

edited 10th Apr '12 10:16:12 AM by LiberatedLiberater

Yeah he feels some of the weapons experience or something like that. He has only trained with swords and bows though.

I think FHA has Shirou using Archer's sword techniques with a broadsword rather than the dual wielding it's normally done with. It's probably a pretty flexible style.

Well since it involves making fatal openings then blocking the attacks that you know should be coming there it should be possible to do with any weapon.

That's not Archer's sword technique, that's just something he did.

I thought that was his style of fighting since he was a mostly normal mage who fought super human creatures hand to hand.

That's his Mind's Eye skill, not his sword techniques.

Pretty sure Shirou thinks something along the lines of how neither he nor Gil are proper swordsmen during his fight. I may have misremembered though.

He states that both of them are owners of swords, but not actual swordsmen.

In the end, his advantage is that Unlimited Blade Works lets him pull out his swords quicker, and that Gil is an arrogant prick he rarely takes anyone seriously.

So I was reading the character page we have on FSN, and I saw this:

I don't remember anything like this, including offscreen things, but how could Assassin even hurt Berserker seeing how he doesn't have a noble phantasm of a high enough rank?

It was stated that Assassin had fended off attacks from all the other Servants. Something like that. And yeah, technically Assassin should be unable to hurt Berserker and even if he could his defense consists around making your opponent dodge rather than moving. At worst, Berserker would just tank the attack, lose one life and then squish Assassin.

However, the story basically did say he managed to repel Berserker. Logic and consistency be damned, it apparently happened.

That's if Ilya was willing to let him lose a life for that. And he did repel every single one of them.

Well this is a guy who gained a Noble Phantasm level attack (that allowed him to do something completely impossible) through ridiculous hard work and reality giving up and saying: FINE!!! HAVE THE FUCKING THING ALREADY AND LEAVE ME ALONE!!!

We can't really put anything past him. If they say he fought off Berserker, than he fought off Berserker.

edited 11th Apr '12 5:30:06 PM by HandsomeRob

By pure swordsmanship abilities, he's stronger than Saber, and he has high ground. Advantageous terrain. Should be good enough to fight berserker to a draw if he doesn't use his noble phantasms.

^^, ^ Well, no. When you get down to it, the technique is hitting someone with a normal sword. It's rank as an ability shouldn't cross the threshold necessary to actually damage Berserker. And apart from that, I don't think Assassin's sword is strong enough to take the kind of abuse that Berserker would put out.

But this is Fate Stay Night, where characters do things that they shouldn't be able to do all the time, regardless of stats, so I figure, if they say he fought off Berserker, then he did it, logic be damned!!!

I do see your point though, but lets face it, Assassin has Rule of Cool in his favor. That surpasses even Berserker's powers.

Oh, I'm just saying that it's inconsistent with the rules that have been established. The story did basically say outright that it happened, it simply doesn't make any actual sense.

And besides, Berserker is boring. Fourth Berserker was awesome. Why is Hercules so boring?

edited 11th Apr '12 6:50:57 PM by Arha

Because he's stuck being a Berserker, losing his sanity. If he was an Archer on the other hand...

My point was that even a mad hero can be made interesting. Fourth Berserker has a completely broken ability set and actually does things.

I think it was because 5th war Berserker didn't need mad enhancement and would've been better without it, but might not have been beatable by many characters (sans Gilgamesh, who might not have even gotten a chance to fight him depending on the route), so he was nerfed to keep him from being a Game-Breaker.

It' also perfectly highlights the flawed reasoning of the fuck up family: one of the most loyal and powerful servants in the whole series? Lets make sure by making him weaker.

Ilya gets some blame as well for keeping him mad all the time, but not actually using the enhancement part for most of the series.

As for 4th war Berserker, lets just be glad he was in the fourth war with a crappy master, because if he had been paired with Ilya...

Bad End. Bad End. Awesome but VERY BAD END.

edited 11th Apr '12 7:38:00 PM by HandsomeRob

Berserker couldn't take Gilgamesh, I think. After awhile Gilgamesh would get sick of him and fire off Ea. But yeah he'd probably tear Assassin, Caster and Archer apart. If Lancer fought seriously he'd make for a good opponent for 4th Berserker. I don't really know about Saber, but in terms of sheer ability she'd probably be a decent match. As in, when she's not distracted by his identity.

Oddly enough, I think Rider would probably tear him apart. Petrification, mid range combat and Bellerophon would be a bitch for him to deal with.

edited 11th Apr '12 7:46:51 PM by Arha