Type-Moon: Fate/stay night, Tsukihime, and Kara no Kyoukai discussion

Actually I'm pretty sure that's not the case. Apparently after all the mess is cleared the Servants are still there, or at least Saber is.

Besides a dream world by itself wouldn't explain Servants presence, sine those can only use things that is already there, you can't make someone dead appear in a dream world.

@ Other Arrow

First of all, you forgot Aoko, and second, aren't his accomplishments nothing compared to a certain someone who not only tied the knot, but unknowingly courted his own daughter?

edited 21st May '15 3:26:05 AM by HallowHawk

I should watch the Kara no Kyoukai movies in the near future. A part of me's curious to see if Tohno Shiki ends up fighting the Emiya Shirou wannabe.

Sorry, nope.

Dammit. That would have been Hilarious in Hindsight.

Otherarrow: Well, she's a bit of an exception to the norm.

Saiga: People just want to believe it's a harem ending when it clearly isn't.

I suppose that even the perfect being can be wrong some times.

The only explanation is that HA didn't happen, or only happened in the broadest of strokes then, because "magic timeline merging that revives everyone except Kotomine, and no one is bothered by this" is extremely stupid and contrived.

Also, from what I understand of dream worlds, the only requirement is that they survive in one timeline, not that they are alive in the "real" world.

@Arha: You mean Sion? Fair enough I guess.

@Annoying Hawk Guy: Mikiya being a chick magnet is also extremely pointless and dumb, but it's also treated slightly more believably? Fujino developed a crush on him because he was the first person to show her unconditional kindness, and it's implied that she gets over it. Azaka developed one because her whole thing is going against social norms. Mana's isn't treated as not a serious crush, but the typical "I wanna grow up to marry daddy" childish thinking.

Kirie's was stupid and contrived though, and added nothing to the plot whatsoever.

Meanwhile, every major female character unique to Tsukihime (so Aoko and Shiki R are excluded) falls in love with Shiki canonically, because....he's the protagonist. Well, the out of universe reason is so Nasu can be vague about which route happened, but Sion also falling in love with him is kinda stupid and contrived.

edited 21st May '15 12:15:26 PM by Otherarrow

The maids made sense because all of their other options were SHIKI and Makihisa. Akiha spent a lot of time with him as a kid. Arcueid's situation is so unusual it actually works somehow. Ciel was being nice to Shiki to check for Roa and eventually became the mask. Satsuki (and apparently the Melty Blood girls, don't know about those yet) are the only ones that are a little bit forced. Sure, it's OK to like someone who saved you from a locker, but Satsuki's love a little bit too much for someone who barely knows Shiki.

I think the original game presented Satsuki's "love" as basically weird, obsessive and, well, crazy. I don't think it was until fans learned of the planned Satsuki route that she started being considered seriously as a love interest, and not just as the Far Side Nero Chaos equivalent.

Anyway, all those reasons you gave? Not bad for the individual routes. But all at once? More than a little contrived, especially since Shiki himself is...well, a typical teenager (abit one with death powers and latent anti-demon assassin skills). Since we don't know which route is canon (if any), we don't know that he spent enough time with any of them to develop such feelings.

And Sion falling for him is dumb.

edited 21st May '15 1:39:55 PM by Otherarrow

No, she wasn't obsessive or anything until she became a vampire. She was just a normal schoolgirl with a normal crush. Sion has the same thing going on if she turns into a vampire.

Kohaku and Akiha make sense to me. Kohaku has absolutely nobody else and is not the most mentally healthy individual while he's the one good thing about Akiha's childhood. I'll give Hisui a pass since she's basically just your standard anime childhood friend. I don't see why Ciel cares about him, though.

Is it just me or does Shirou/Rin not get as much focus as Shirou/Saber in canon? At least, it doesn't seem to be in the anime. But UBW is really Archer's route rather than Rin's route so....

So here's a question: How in the world did Shirou summon Saber? I understand that Avalon had something to do with it but that spell circle was used to stabilize Irisviel, not summon a Servant and Shirou didn't say a single line of the aria or even put prana into the spell circle.

Ew, even Sion TATARI is obsessed with Shiki? God. Shiki is like a plot blackhole, every plot needs to somehow revolve around him.

Also, good point on Vampire Satsuki. It's been a while, so I kinda forgot how she acted before she was turned.

Yep, UBW is firmly Archer focused and has romance because a route needs a heroine.

Grail does most of the actual work for summoning a Servant.

Vampire Sion and Sion TATARI aren't really the same thing. V. Sion likes Shiki like normal Sion does, but because she's a vampire she wants to suck his blood and gets a little fixated on him, which actually works out since she can't beat him in a fight and won't drink anyone's blood before his.

Also come to think of it after Zepia dies I think she might have returned to normal. It's been a really long time since I played Melty Blood.

edited 21st May '15 2:46:24 PM by Arha

Rin in UBW doesn't have as much focus as Saber in Fate, but I feel their was plenty of chemistry there. And she has lots of chemistry with Shirou in HF, which makes me feel the order should be swapped so it could lead to the route where they actually become a couple.

Oh, weird. Well, they are the same in terms of gameplay terms, so my confusion.

My bad.

(Also, how bad is Sion as a fighter if she can't even beat Shiki?)

Well, you can lose the first fight against her and the story mode will branch accordingly but canonically she loses. In terms of stats and abilities she's superior but he's hard to predict and has a maxed out killer stat.

Well, true, that makes sense. Even if untrained, he's unpredictable and has innate anti-monster skills, and getting too close and too open with him is a death sentence. So even if all his opponents are technically stronger, he has at least that advantage. The underdog edge, if you will.

(Also, I think TATARI shenanigans buffs him as well?)

So in other news Ayaka is the A-san from the ghost story at the beginning of FHA. Also, Zelretch and Alcatraz picked her to compete because every other choice seemed to come up with a bad end, just as Jester intending to wake up ORT.

...so Ayaka is a ghost, because she was specifically picked out for the role by a crossdimentional vampire wizard and his vampire cellphone friend. OK.

Also, Jester was the guy who woke up ORT and got eaten? Or was his goal to do that in Strange Fake anyway?

People remember ORT?

edited 22nd May '15 10:58:42 AM by Otherarrow

Jester is the guy (apparently a little girl in the form of the peoples hearts she takes) that wants to wake up ORT because he's bored. But that's a secondary objective to tainting Fake Assassin and corrupting her once he summoned her. Too bad for him she killed one of his hearts.

Who were the other candidates before Ayaka?

Also, I thought Ayaka was being chased by a ghost in a little red riding hood outfit if the translation I read on Beast Lair was right.

Going by Arha's comments, it seemed like the other Masters were all considered. Jester was at least.

Also, I am pretty sure I completely misunderstood Arha's comment, my bad.

edited 22nd May '15 11:08:59 AM by Otherarrow

No, Ayaka isn't a ghost, she's being chased by one.

No, Jester just wants to use the Grail to wake up ORT because he's really, really bored.

And Jester was going to be there anyway, I think. Zelretch just wanted to send someone in to take the blank Master of Saber position but all his choices kept ending up with bad results until Alcatraz figured out how to get a good ending and then calculated backward from that, which arrived at the result of Ayaka as a Master. Her glasses may be needed for this.

So this fake Grail War is of such importance that it caught the interests of Zelretch and Alcatraz and they explicitly manipulated things so it'd turn out good. Huh.

Also, do we know where this Ayaka comes from exactly? She probably isn't just a straight transplant from F/P seeing as, well, she's blonde.

edited 22nd May '15 11:13:49 AM by Otherarrow