Sinfest

Is it any wonder that I think some of you guys have developed into (closet or not) misogynists due to hating this comic so much I mean, some of you are so into the "Blargh prove author women aren't perfect" even though that doesn't accomplish really anything. Or even mean anything.

We know women aren't perfect. Men sure as hell aren't, either. But in Sinfest, women are perfect. Can you name even one female in this comic who has, on her own initiative, performed an act that is viewed in-universe as evil? (I'm purposely wording it this way to avoid the frog thing, which seems to be viewed in-universe as good.)

Even the Devil Girls, who work for Satan himself, are literally◊ Punch Clock Villains. They don't seem to enjoy their work; look at Sapphire or Baby Blue. I'm still trying to figure out why Absinthe has horns and a tail.

With the exception of occasionally being a bit too "serious," the members of the Sisterhood are presented as being flawless, always right, and darn near omnipotent. (Bitch-slapping God?! Really?)

If you ever venture onto the official ''Sinfest'' discussion forum, you'll see what we aren't: a completely uncritical, adoring, enemy-smiting fan club. What we're doing here is restoring balance to the Force, or countering yang with yin, or trying to be the voice of sanity. Or maybe we're just venting. Yeah, lots of venting in addition to that other stuff. We sure wouldn't be allowed to say anything critical over at Tats' Forum.

Tats is a talented artist. He's demonstrated that he knows how to be humorous and to handle some serious subjects with a light touch. But what he's been doing since he became awoken is ... ponderous and profoundly disappointing.

See, this is what I'm talking about when I say you guys take this too seriously, what is point of "Restoring balance to the force" of a shitty webcomic?

Anyway, dunno, they seem pretty flawed to me.

edited 1st Jul '16 2:39:07 AM by SpookyMask

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. "Restoring balance to the force" is meant as a joke. I'm sure no one here really thinks there is some invisible force acting like a counterbalance to insipid feminist propaganda. After the huge exodus of Sinfest's fan base after Tats found feminism I'm glad that there's still one place where enough like-minded readers gather to collectively point and laugh at how much the comic has changed for the worse.

No one on planet Earth talks like this after just waking up. If she's really this high strung, I wonder how Xanthe treats other aspects of her life. She must be fun at parties!

I meant that yeah I get you guys are venting, but I still think this comic isn't worth the trouble of being angry about it to point of venting out .-.

Like, its just more lame than controversial comic really.

edited 1st Jul '16 3:22:50 AM by SpookyMask

See, this is what I'm talking about when I say you guys take this too seriously, what is point of "Restoring balance to the force" of a shitty webcomic?

Lighten up, Francis.

I meant that yeah I get you guys are venting, but I still think this comic isn't worth the trouble of being angry about it to point of venting out .-.

And yet, you're here with multiple posts about us.

Like, its just more lame than controversial comic really.

That's the problem. Now it's lame. It used to be good.

edited 1st Jul '16 4:06:17 AM by Hexapodia

I agree that today's comic barely deserved the venting, and I think the reactions were a bit overblown. But sometimes the comic really deserves it.

To the cynics I say, don't let let the bitterness blind you to progress. And try to enjoy the days comic on its own terms a bit more, without digging up all the emotional baggage all the time. It helps.

I found todays comic actually pretty funny. Xanthe gets made fun of! By her own grandmother, no less. And to two women, at that. When does THAT ever happen?

I think todays comic could potentially show two very important points about Xanthes character.

First of all, the fact that she is being mocked by Nana shows that Tats is starting to see the character in a different light, and that he is poking fun at his own feminist character now (character, because I feel Xanthe is, and always has been, THE feminist character; the rest is basically just entourage).

This means Xanthe is shown to have a flaw now. Or Tats is trying to show one, anyway. Progress!

And secondly, it is interesting that she starts her spiel as soon as she sees the other women. Is she doing this just to seek attention from women? Why else would she even start about it?

I think any comments about parenting would be really complicated by the fact that Xanthes physical age clearly does not match her emotional or mental age. It is not just that she is so focussed with such a mature subject (yes, even when it is misguided; no real child would concern themselves with this to this degree), but the way she looks at the issues, too. She acts like an embittered 40 year old who has been through feminist-hell and came out having lost all idealism and faith in humanity (yes, in women too), becoming cynical of everything and bashing everything even remotely offensive to her. (Come to think of it, some posters here are getting shades of that too. He Who Fights Monsters, indeed. ;) )

How SHOULD a parent react to something like this? You tell me. Frankly, I think she needs a psychologist more than a mother.

Well said.

For me hating Xanthe as soon as she appears on screen is a bit of a reflex! You're probably right that Tats is trying to inject some humour into Xanthe, with Grandma acting a bit condescending towards her. (Stuff like patting her on the head, saying she's always serious etc.) To me it's not the expected kind of fun you'd poke at someone like that.

It might be an odd comparison, but the first character that comes to mind that is similar to Xanthe in its execution is Brainy Smurf. Just about the same mix of self-righteousness and pretentiousness, a know-nothing-know-it-all that gets on everyone's nerves as soon as he opens his mouth. The reaction of the environment is different though.

When Brainy starts preaching to his fellow Smurfs, he usually gets about 2 sentences in before they kick him out of the village. Xanthe gets taken seriously by practically everyone except Grandma, who responds with little more than a pat on the head and an "Oh you, XD". Tats almost seems scared to poke fun at Xanthe and her beliefs, as if she's going to come after him and cut his nuts off or something.

I'd wish for someone in Sinfest to just shut her up for once. Even a simple "Xanthe, you know what I told you about trying to spread feminism before breakfast!" from Grandma would be fun to see.

What Xanthe needs is to meet Mafalda. You know, Quino's little girl. Given that both have (or think they have) a VERY in-depth vision of the world's ills, but unlike Xanthe Mafalda still finds the time to be a little girl, that could be very illuminating. And let's be honest, unlike Xanthe Mafalda attacks everything wrong indiscriminately with the gentleness of a pitbull - if Xanthe started ranting about the evil of man, Mafalda would bring her down there and then.

@Hexopodia: Francis? .-. Is that a saying or reference?

Anyhoo, dunno what you mean, you guys bring my mood up during my depression :D I keep reading this thread because I find it amusing. Doesn't prevent me being baffled though about why you guys sometimes get really worked up.

Classical reference.

http://sinfest.net/view.php?date=2016-07-02

First off, fuck you Xanthe.

Second off, holy shit, Xanthe showed actual joyful excitement.

Fuck you too, Tats.

She still doesn't seem to be able to smile, though.

So... the radfem (who is probably a proud member of the counterintuitively authoritarian "regressive left") is confirmed to be happy that liberty has left America.

Is this Unfortunate Implications or a deliberate... pun? satire? I'm not even sure what to call this trick of writing when it's done on purpose... on Tats' part.

Well no liberty means they can make a police state and then they can start doing things like arresting men for looking at women without permission.

Wow Xanthe. The lady has a painful breakup with the person they love and you're cheering. Classy as fuck you sociopathic little cunt.

So... the radfem (who is probably a proud member of the counterintuitively authoritarian "regressive left") is confirmed to be happy that liberty has left America.

Either that, or there's no symbolism at all — she despises men, and she's elated that one more cishet-PIV relationship has been destroyed. Either interpretation isn't pretty.

I've known quite a few lesbians, and in general they've fallen into one of three categories. First there are the women whose brains happen to be wired to be sexually aroused by women; easily the majority, in my experience. I've always gotten along fine with them, perhaps because my brain is wired that way, too. (And they know some great dirty jokes!) Then there are the women who were emotionally damaged (by violence or sexual abuse) by one or more men in early life and no longer trust any man; they apparently develop relationships with other women for emotional support and love. I have enormous sympathy for them, but as a male there's little I can do other than to treat them with kindness, respect, and fairness. Then there are the women who simply hate men, don't want to like men, are repulsed and disgusted by the thought of "PIV sex", and are convinced that all men are evil and the source of everything wrong with the world. What can be done to ameliorate their attitude? Nothing, because they are utterly convinced that this is the right way to be and that everyone else is insane.

Which category would you put Xanthe into? I'm leaning strongly toward #3, but #2 would be more interesting.

It could be enlightening if Tats were to explore Xanthe's backstory — why did she turn out the way she did? Did she hate her still-unknown father? Was her mother murdered by a man? Xanthe's surname is "Justice" — was her mother Lady Justice, AKA Justitia or Themis? (Or perhaps Dike, the daughter of Zeus and Themis — and no, her name is not a pun.)

Was Xanthe's father "Mister Justice"? Historically, there doesn't seem to have been a male personification of the concept. Could Xanthe be the daughter of Zeus, or the God of the comic? That might explain her arrogance and self-righteousness ...

By the way, there are two Xanthes in mythology. One of the two was a sea nymph daughter of Poseidon; she doesn't seem to have been particularly noteworthy, and she was one of three thousand such daughters. But the other Xanthe was one of the Amazons — an ancient (and probably mythical) warlike matriarchy. Proposed origins of the name "Amazons" include derivations from words for "manless," "warriors," and "virility-killing" — lots of opportunities for symbolism there!

edited 1st Jul '16 11:53:07 PM by Hexapodia

Wow. What the fuck. <— My literal thoughts when I read this comic.

If anyone ever wonders why Xanthe is such a disliked character that gets booed every time she shows up, you just need to bring up this comic.

It's only fitting that the first thing you ever see her excited about is an event where two people are suffering. It's what the Sisterhood runs its bikes on!

...congratulations, Tats, In the past your comics had me feeling sad that you lost your touch, angry for your continuous soapboxing, disgusted by your hamfistedness. THIS comic made me start hyperventilating.

Way to get to new lows.

One thing you said made me get a weird image. Follow me on this, ok?

Let's just say that Xanthe IS the daughter of one Mr. Justice. From the name, he's either a classic pulp hero or a superhero complete with cape, mask and spandex. Said mr. Justice, like many in his biz, ended up courting a villainess - Nana's daughter, a witch. They dated, they married, they had a little girl, Xanthe (he let his wife choose the name). Then he found out that his wife was returning to villainy. He tried to talk her out of it, to no avail, but in the end he had to put her in the slammer. Cue "wild card": mrs. Justice literally brainwashed baby Xanthe to hate people like her husband, using feminism as a fundament - and mr. Justice had to leave because his very sight sends Xanthe into insane bouts of rage.

End result: Xanthe literally CANNOT smile, since she's more or less a brainwashed doll, but can use both her mom's powers and her dad's stuff (where did you think she got a hi-tech secret base, in a cereal box?) to pursue the fake ideals "mama" pumped in her brain. She's unbelievably powerful due to her genes, and any female that is in contact with her for too long and doesn't have comparable powers ends up as a copy of her: a school friend (Violet), the school nurse (Mercy) and a neighbor (Clio) - not to mention Monique and 'nique's fan. The only reason Fuchsia was spared is her demonic blood, ironically. Oh, and Nana? She's not only her grandmother, she's her WARDEN. The pumpkin spice lattes Xanthe loves so much are pumped full of a power-suppressing potion that mellows her and makes her less infective, while Nana looks for a cure for her condition and keeps in touch with mr. Justice - who is scouring the world looking for a cure himself.

Okay, it's kind of ridiculous, but you gotta admit that it's kinda better than Tats' "ode to the divine female", ne?

This is actually the THIRD thing she's ever been excited about. First and second were Nana's pumpkin spiced cookies and pumpkin spiced lattes.

edited 2nd Jul '16 12:48:48 AM by Metalix

Okay, it's kind of ridiculous, but you gotta admit that it's kinda better than Tats' "ode to the divine female", ne?

That ... That not only makes sense, it makes far more sense than where Tats seems to be going.

By the way, am I the only one who's hoping there's a pitchfork hidden in that pile of leaves?

I think this is still Tats trying to make Xanthe sillier and more lighthearted. I don't think the original trike girl would have jumped for anything, let alone joy...

Part of the problem is, once again, that Sam and Liberty are allegorical characters: they are not just characters, they stand in for something else. Sometimes Tats treats them like their symbolic meaning, sometimes just as normal characters. This is where the weird and unfortunate implications come from.

And I agree that a backstory for Xanthe would be enlightening and interesting. Odd as it may seem, Xanthe is probably one of the more interesting characters in this comic. Sure, her views on feminism are terrible, but they sure get us talking about it. Even a bad example is an example of how NOT to do it.

I think this is still Tats trying to make Xanthe sillier and more lighthearted.

Perhaps, but he could have chosen a more lighthearted occasion for her to be joyful about. What's next? ... "Your father died? Woohoo! One less potential rapist to worry about!" ?

There's a parody site called Nazifest that takes Tats' comics and changes the wording in the balloons to provide a bit of perspective. When the Sisterhood talks about the evil deeds of men and how all men should be exterminated, their version substitutes the word Jews. It's more than a little creepy how well one maps to the other.

When people tell you that they intend to kill you, it's usually a good idea to take them seriously.