The Legend Of Zelda - General Thread

The so-called Temples in the series are, in all honesty, not very temple-y.

Calling something a "temple" in Zelda is like calling something a "dungeon" in D&D. Instead of the word's actual definition, it's usually just an umbrella term for anywhere underground or indoors with treasure and monsters in it.

The OoT Temples did pretty well as temples if you read into things.

Volvagia was known for eating Gorons until a hero slew it. The Fire Temple has several jail cells set up inside, a bit strange for a temple. It's possible that until Volvagia was first slain that the Gorons worshiped it out of fear, with the Fire Temple being a temple to that also served to hold Gorons who would be sacrificed to it.

The Water Temple near by a warp between Lake Hylia and Zora's Domain, and normally only a Zora would be able to enter it. Ruto also seems somewhat familiar with the place. It looks pretty temple-like compared to the others. It's easy to imagine that it's a place of worship for Zora, though it's unclear if it's out of use. The place has quite a number of statues of dragons, perhaps the object of worship. This could go for the Lakebed Temple in TP too, since it's likely the Water Temple under a different name.

The Spirit Temple is the most obvious. The inside and outside of the temple have giant statues of a woman combined with a snake, very prominent like it's the goddess the temple is devoted to. The name of the area the temple is in, Desert Colossus, refers to this statue, and the name of the area in the Japanese version of the game is Colossal Evil God Statue. This is a curious name, because it's easy to imagine that these statues are of an old Gerudo deity that the Hylians called an "evil god", similar to how gods of other religions were turned into demons by Christians. Notably, there's a similar statue in the Arbiter's Grounds.

The Shadow Temple just appear to be a mausoleum and torture chamber. Though the fact that it's called a temple makes you wonder what exactly the Shiekah were doing there, especially given how hidden the place is.

The only one without anything really temple-like about it even if you read into things is the Forest Temple. It just appears to be an abandoned, haunted mansion out in the woods. It is pretty mysterious as what it's doing out here though. For that matter, is it being a temple related to being found in a place called the Sacred Forest Meadow?

The Water Temple is in no way a place of worship, it's a giant labyrinth stuck under the lake for no real reason. Its HW incarnation feels a lot more like an actual temple.

if the water temple is a religious area i'm surprised the zora arent athiest

Honestly, why are we still stuck in the mindset of "Water Temple sucks"?

Hasn't Mark Brown proven that the Water Temple is actually one of the greatest pieces of level design ever made?

it is immensely boring to go through and drags on longer than it should

that is reason enough

You cannot prove an opinion.

I liked the water temple actually,the worst temple for me was the forest temple's block puzzles

i dislike the water temple because even with the 3ds improvements it still neccisates continuously drifting down and up and down

the boss is the worst boss in the game

the item is a disappointment, being just an upgrade of a previous item rather than a new item that doesn't add anything besides "wow you can go FURTHER!"

it IS very pretty and has soothing, if eerie music, and shadow link was an alright fight, though i feel he could've fit shadow temple more, maybe him instead of the second dead hand round

watching that guy's video i kinda disagree with his views on linearity, it's not like this inherently awful stigma on video games

exploration is great but when you had to plod around with iron boots everywhere it gets draining real quick

I have always hated and will always hate discovering you forgot to pick up one fucking key, forcing you to ransack all the rooms that are open to you looking for it.

"But Asterism it's IMMERSIVE!". No, it's annoying.

Yeah, I can't find a temple where it's so easy to miss a key while slowly wandering through its intricate arquitecture to be an example of good game design.

Especially since the key you forget seems to change with every playthrough. I don't really mind the Water Temple- it's okay- but I love the music.

Also, I agree with disagreeing with Mark Brown regarding linearity. While I can understand where he's coming from, there's nothing inherently wrong with something that's straightforward. It's part of the reason why I want the next Zelda game to at least partially return to the original formula.

Like, have the first three dungeons be linear but, after the turning point (like, say, getting the Master Sword), you can do the next four or five dungeons in whatever order you like but block off good treasure or faster/easier routes behind "gates" the require items from the other dungeons. Then we get back to linearity with the final dungeon and boss. Also, make the story actually progress as you complete dungeons instead of what BotW did where the only thing that changes is Link's confidence.

But the central pillar of Zelda is exploration. It's the reason why Miyamoto created Zelda in the first place:

Therefore, Zelda dungeons should challenge your ability to explore. Why else do you think Lanayru Desert is the only really good area of Skyward Sword?

edited 29th Apr '17 5:20:20 PM by WaxingName

There you go treating your opinions as facts again...

edited 29th Apr '17 5:19:17 PM by Perseus

Single Issue Wonkery is very hard to cure

The Temple of Water is not a test of your exploration abilities, but your ability to wander through a huge maze.

Exploring you wander because you want to. Mazes you wander the same area over and over because you're lost and you have to.

Unless you're playing Breath of the Wild. Then you just climb on to of the walls and go "Fuck your maze" by walking straight to the goal.

Yeah, that's why Breath of the Wild is so bloody fantastic on the exploration front. There are so many obstacles and puzzles you can outright break with the mechanics and tools handed to the player, the "fuck yo maze" being the simplest of the lot.

edited 29th Apr '17 5:49:58 PM by Elbruno

Exploration is boring if there's nothing else to break up the monotony. Having a dungeon also be a test of the player's patience is just poor design.

Maybe it's because I only played the 3DS version, but I never had an issue with the Water Temple. The place isn't that big, the map is good enough to check where you haven't been yet, and a more mazelike dungeon is nice sometimes, even if they're not my favorite kind.

I find it odd that MM's dungeons are considered the crown jewels of Zelda dungeon design since you do have to think where to use your keys and how you need to manipulate the whole dungeon to get places.

But the Water Temple is still considered one of the worst levels in the series.

The reason most people dislike the Water Temple is for the Iron Boots bullshit I think

I played the 3DS version so it's actually my favorite OOT dungeon

It never was an issue for me either, and I played the N64 version on Wii VC.

And Sterok's right. Just check the damn map. Honestly, maybe dungeons would be even more fun if they don't give you a map and let you explore and map them completely on your own.

I don't think it'd work so well in this kind of game, honestly.

edited 29th Apr '17 8:16:33 PM by Perseus