Dragon Age

Well, I finally finished the Orzammar quest. I sided with Caridin over Branka and made him create a crown for the king I would choose. In the end, I chose Bhelen over Harrowmont. That's how it went. I think I'll go to the circle of magi next.

I'm currently doing the Circle Of Magi quest. I'm in the fade searching for my companions and the forms I have to change into in order to defeat the demons.

Is this your first time playing? Make sure you look around all the areas thoroughly once you've unlocked all the forms, there's a lot of stat boosts you can find lying around.

No, this isn't my first time playing. I've owned Origins for many years. I'm just replaying it again after finishing it.

Anyone seen this?

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/dragon-age-producer-teases-something-new-as-biowar/1100-6439231/

Also, a thought. What if in the next game, you play as an agent of Fen'herel?

Say, Solas becomes a sort of Illusive Man figure as a mysterious benefactor. He recruits the player character to strike out against corrupt Tevinter officials and help incite a revolution.

And at some point you and your party find out about Solas' real goals and for the rest of the game you're fighting him.

And maybe the Inquisiton shows up as a sympathetic antagonist. I mean for the early bit, where you're still working for Solas.

That article is 2 months old.

That's a cool story idea but might be harder to implement in terms of RPG nature of the game.

Basically, rule of thumb is that the Player shouldn't know more than the PC does in regards to plot though there are exceptions. Having a nod to previous events of the series is always a good idea, even if the Player Character may not know the intimate details of the event. Continuity is always fun.

However, putting the player in a situation where they will think very differently compared to the actions of the characters even if the character's logic is fine can be frustrating. If the bad guy is tricking the PC into helping him because the PC is unaware that they're the bad guy, but the Player is perfectly aware of the ruse, it can be frustrating and more so if it continues for a length period of time.

So, if they were to have Solas be some recruiter for his cause that we fall in with, it'd have to be a REALLY clever ruse that not even the Player Character is aware of. Now, it could be cool if we're recruited and we THINK we're joining the Inquisition (or working for the Inquisitor) only for the Plot Twist to be that we're working for Solas the whole time and THEN we join the Inquisition/Inquisitor.

I'd just be careful about those Tomato in the Mirror twists because they can also be frustrating on the second go around depending on how much it entails.

Yeah, there's a limit to how much you can use dramatic irony in a game like Dragon Age, on account of the fact that many people don't really care for the distinction between audience knowledge and character knowledge. Many players want to make choices that they know to be correct based on previous games, regardless of what the character's been exposed to.

Inquisition did a fantastic job of utilizing dramatic irony to foreshadow Blackwall's reveal. There are so many things about him that stick out in both his actions and his dialogue. Things that just seem wrong for a Grey Warden. Players familiar with the Wardens from Origins can pick up on the fact that something isn't right, that he doesn't know things he should and has beliefs about the Order and its purpose that fly in the face of how every other other Warden in previous games has presented it.

He just doesn't talk like a Grey Warden.

edited 30th Jun '16 8:45:42 PM by TobiasDrake

A ton of people are already annoyed at Mass Effect 2 sort of railroading you into helping a villain, DA 4 doing it in an even straighter, more blatant fashion would not go over too well.

It is an interesting idea though and being used by Solas for a chunk of the game before learning the truth and undoing the damage you caused sounds cool, especially if the damage you are undoing is directly connected to the choices you made while in the "Solas' Dupe" phase. I think that be pretty neat but not sure if it's feasible to do in a game.

I know for a fact tons of people wouldn't like being tricked into working for Solas in that fashion. I think another use of the Revan twist would be better if Bioware really want to do that.

x3

Agreed. Blackwall was well written in that regard. He acted oddly, but not in a way that anyone could really call out and in ways that could have various justified interpretations. Where was he during the Blight? Well, to be fair, we did kind of assume we were the only Wardens in Fereldan and were subsequently proven wrong during the game itself. Why does he get awkward about how the Archdemon was killed? We also know that that's a BIG SECRET in his organization so him being awkward about the details makes sense in its own way.

Blackwall was well written in the aspect that I could tell something was up because of previous games (where a new player might be blind sided), but I didn't mind helping him out of sheer lack of reason not to help him exactly and the fact that curiosity might motivate you forward.

Doing something that you know is antagonistic or villainous and giving you no other choice is going to be a bummer and not one all fans are happy of. I'd like to see the series play a bit more with Character Knowledge vs. Player Knowledge, but maybe not in that way.

Yeah. The big red flags are when he says things that undermine the order's Mission Statement - Wardens are vital, Wardens are necessary, only Wardens can stop the Blight, we need these concessions from various nations because we provide an impossible service that no nation can.

When Blackwall says things like, "Anyone can kill an Archdemon," it not only betrays his lack of knowledge and/or unwillingness to share the secret truth, but the way he says it completely contradicts the Wardens' ironclad insistence that no, only Wardens can do it, we just won't say why.

He even uses the Rite of Conscription wrong. Temporarily "conscripting" villagers to fight bandits and then not making Wardens out of them has never been what that means.

So many things about him that are just off, which a new player would never even notice but a series veteran can start picking up on and assembling in their mind.

edited 1st Jul '16 7:39:48 AM by TobiasDrake

I think my favorite part was when he claimed that a Warden is a promise "To protect others, even at the cost of your own life." That's not really true—Wardens are supposed to prioritize the Blight over literally everything else—but it's close enough to how you could play in Origins that it's easy to dismiss it. It's only when you add it to everything else that you start realizing things aren't quite right.

To be fair Rainier's image of the Wardens is colored by the actual Blackwall's actions when the man sacrificed himself to save a wreck of a man like Rainier.

But I agree, Blackwall's writing, if not the character himself, was one of my favorite parts of Inquisition. It's just sad that Blackwall himself wasn't as compelling as his background.

I like when you can ask him about whether he's struggling with the Calling and he gives a belligerent non-answer like "Nothing's going to stop me from doing what's right," because he legitimately has no idea what you're talking about.

edited 1st Jul '16 8:55:54 AM by TobiasDrake

I'm kind of disappointed that he didn't attempt a con within a con, and pretend to hear Corypheus's fake Calling.

It'd kind of defeat the purpose. He's trying to atone and be a better man. He was willing to join the Wardens and he was willing to join the Inquisition. He's trying to make up for his past sins, not con anyone. After all, it's not his fault that his recruiter got killed and the rest of the order went crazy at the same time.

The problem is the Calling is another one of the Grey Wardens' secrets. When you ask Rainier about him not talking about the Calling, that's in front of the Warden Ally, who would be able to sniff out any bullshit Rainier might try to come up with.

Maybe they do. But even if they did, that doesn't necessarily mean they'd tell the Inquisitor. And the fact that they're all hearing the Calling at once all of a sudden throws everything up in the air, because that's not supposed to happen. Maybe they just assume Blackwall is being stoic. He does come across as the type.

You don't think the Ally would want the Inquisitor to know that they're travelling with a fake Warden? I highly doubt any of the potential Warden Allies would let Blackwall slide if they caught him in a lie regarding the Wardens, especially Loghain and Alistair.

Also, your last statement is precisely why Rainier's non-answer regarding the Calling works; it's likely the Ally just assumed that he was being all stoic about it. If he tried to make something up, it would have been too obvious to the Ally, Corphytit's fake Calling notwithstanding.

Yeah, I'm just speculating on possible explanations, playing the devs' advocate if you like. They can't really all be true, and I actually agree with you— it is odd that the Warden Ally never comments on Blackwall's act. The most likely explanation seems to me that the devs didn't think of it or didn't think anyone would notice or care. But! in-story, since the Wardens are very hush-hush about exact details like the Calling or why only a Warden can kill an Archdemon, they might not want to get into their suspicions about Blackwall because then the inevitable question is why.

...That's one possible explanation, others exist, none can really be proven. Maybe the fact you trust Blackwall is good enough for them, maybe they've got bigger fish to fry and now is not the time, maybe they don't know enough about the real Blackwall to be sure this isn't some ploy on his part (for any of the reasons mentioned above) that they don't want to ruin. I don't know.

edited 1st Jul '16 2:19:03 PM by Unsung

From my understanding, he 'conscripted' them and then sent them off to Whaisaupt to under go the joining. They'd arrive at Whaisaupt and say who sent them and there'd certainly be confusion (either 'We don't know where Blackwall is because he dropped off the face of the earth a decade ago' or 'You got conscripted by a dead man') but I doubt they'd reject new recruits.

Which in turn could be chocked up to 'My Warden is now in charge of the Wardens and maybe they made some REALLY massive changes in that short time'. There are both reasons to doubt Blackwall's story and reasons to just assume that things have changed in the last decade. Other characters give us much the same insight into places we've long since left such as Vivienne with the Circle System, Varric with Kirkwall, and Morrigan with our original Warden.

If Blackwall is being hush-hush about The Calling, even to the Inquisitor, the Wardens might be fine with that. 'He's still keeping our secret'. The Inquisitor isn't privy to the secrets of the Grey Warden Order and, if Blackwall looks like he's being vague or out-right not telling them, the Wardens might not smell the bullshit.

He dismisses the villagers to return home to their families once they've slain the bandits. He doesn't send them to Weisshaupt.

He might not even know the Joining is a thing. It's unclear if the real Blackwall ever actually got so far as explaining it to Rainier. Which would fit the Warden M.O.; Duncan didn't actually explain it until they were doing it, after all.

edited 1st Jul '16 5:28:17 PM by TobiasDrake

Since Thom Rainier didn't know why they stopped to go after the darkspawn that ended up killing the original Blackwall, the former definitely doesn't know what the Joining actually entails. Can't remember right now if he ever mentions it by name, though.

Those particular villagers were not sent off to the Joining. Blackwall even says that while he won't be there next time someone attacks, they will, and they'll be able to defend themselves.

But as for his recruitment in general, I think that's about right, but the Grey Wardens definitely didn't know the real Blackwall was dead. Leliana's spies would have found out something like that very quickly. As far as they're concerned, he just became even more of a loner than usual ten years ago. Every once in a while he sends recruits to the nearest Grey Warden fortress for the Joining, and they're accepted because the Wardens never turn down recruits. If the recruits say "I'm not marching a hundred miles, make me," Blackwall just calls them a coward and moves on. It's a weird situation, but there's no Blight going on, so nobody really cares.

'ed twice.

edited 1st Jul '16 5:48:30 PM by Discar