Hazbin Hotel (Amazon Prime)

...What fever dream has this thread turned into?

....

I am innocent!

We're starting to feel the effects of Season 2 being many moons away. Gotta find some way to while away the hours

We're doing a thread-fanfiction, you cannot stop it, it's self-sustaining now

Looking forward to whatever insanities we cook up while waiting for season 2.

Speaking of the question of Lilith and the mystery of her character, I'm more interested in the implications for Lilith's relationship with Charlie, more than her relationship with Lucifer.

And let's not get into the tosh with Adam and certain members of the Fandom.

I'm so excited to see Lilith. I doubt she'll be pure evil, though it's definitely questionable whether she'll lean more good or evil when taken across the whole show (so counting possible development and redemption). I love enigmatic characters like that, and it makes sense to introduce one as we begin to learn more about the previous enigmatic character, Alastor (though he's still fairly enigmatic).

at some point she's going to assume her place as the queen of demons,hopefully anyway.

I definitely think that Lilith is going to challenge Charlie at a fundamental level. I can't bring myself to think of Lilith in terms of "good" at this point in time, especially not when Charlie is taken into consideration, but I do think she's going to be a different flavour of antagonist from Lute or Sera and especially Adam.

Maybe she'll be like pre-character-development Lucifer in that she genuinely doesn't believe that demons can be redeemed. But while that belief made Lucifer apathetic, it made her angry and despise all demons who aren't her daughter. They could make that sympathetic by showing her rule over heaven and being creative (as the intro suggests) and a good ruler. However, the debauchery and misery of Hell, despite the facts that the sinners don't have any more actual reason to be dicks than humans do, makes her hate the sinners. That could be a cause of the divorce, Lucifer (after being cast down from heaven) initially remained optimistic but quickly grew apathetic. Lilith held out longer, causing arguments between her and Lucifer and leading to the divorce (maybe that's why she takes Charlie away in that scene, she doesn't want her to become apathetic like her dad, which could link to how Charlie barely knows him but does seem to better know her mother and is, obviously, very optimistic). However, her constant attempts to make hell better being constantly stopped by sinner after sinner turns her into a hateful figure who genuinely wants all demons to die. Maybe the plotline of season 3 or 4 (because I think Viv said she won't be the focus of season 2) will be Charlie trying to make hell itself better and convince Lilith of it's worth.

Edited by king15 on Apr 8th 2024 at 11:14:26 AM

I think Lilith being “Lucifer but much, much harder to have her hope reignited” will probably be basic gist of where they would take her.

I personally think that it might be more complicated than that. If only due to the fact that the mystery behind Lilith is going to be a major storyline going forward.

For example, what if Lilith grew to see Free Will providing people with the Freedom to Sin as a feature rather than a mistake?

I think Lilith's main role is going to be to get Lucifer out of the picture for the season, since he's so powerful it eliminates any dramatic tension.

That would only really matter for a fight occuring, which is only an issue if it's Lute leading the fight. Lucifer doesn't do anything to the dramatic tension otherwise since he has no reason to be involved in any of the more dramatic moments that aren't related to Heaven attacking. Even in Season 1, he didn't step in when the lone sharks attacked, and he only got involved in the final battle because of Adam, who was too strong for even the heaviest hitters like Alastor or Charlie, and even then he was explicitly late showing up.

So unless it involves Lute launching another attack on the Hotel, Lucifer doesn't threaten the dramatic tension since he doesn't have to be involved in it in the first place.

Considering the hints that the Vees are going to play a major villain-role in season 2 and how their M.O seems to be less about raw power and more into political manipulations to gain the support of the masses instead, then Lucifer won't lift a finger towards the politicians of Hell unless they come at the Hazbin themselves. Wish they may do eventually due to it being the residual "home base" for one Overlord and the Royal Family of Hell.

I also suspect that the Vees haven't been able to display a proper threat-level yet through season one, is due to not all of them have decided to act as a unholy trinity yet to organize a proper showing of what they are really capable off.

I am talking about how Velvette of course.

She has yet to show any drive so far or get the motivation to organize the others into an effective campaign for their goal of kicking the rest of the Overlords off the totem-pole. She claims to be the "backbone of the Vees" and honestly, I believe that claim 100%.

So for season two, we might be able to see what the Vees really can do once she gets motivated into getting the resources of the other two parts in their trinity organized and acting properly with efficiency.

Sir Pentious and Lute wouldn't recognize each other, would they?

Sir Pentious would absolutely not have a single clue about who Lute is as he never met the woman even once, not even when she was wearing the mask.

Lute may recognize him from the trial in Heaven, but considering how dismissive she is towards the Sinners, may have not even bothered to put the serpent seen for a few seconds to memory for later recollection.

Edited by Trainbarrel on Apr 16th 2024 at 1:39:47 PM

One thing I like about Pentious’ redemption is that he achieved it with no expectations it would happen. He fully expected to be erased entirely if his attack failed.

Which in a way made it more genuine. He put his existence on the line to save others with no expectation of reward for himself.

That's why I'm leaning towards the "sacrifice" part being, if not the major key to Sinners getting redeemed, then at least a big part of it. Pentious sacrificed himself knowing full-well what getting hit with an angelic weapon would do to him, and he did it anyway because it was the right thing to do. He put somebody else ahead of himself.

It was the ultimate act of selflessness; Doing something good for somebody else at a great personal cost.

I personally think that a big component regarding redemption will be about not just genuinely wanting to change for the better, but changing for the better the sake of others and not just yourself. Wanting to be "redeemed" only for your own sake, regardless of it being secretly or not, probably won't cut it.

Edited by MagmaTeaMerry on Apr 16th 2024 at 4:03:45 PM

I don't like how this season was going on about how Angel has changed for the better enough to become redeemed and get into heaven, but the one who made the big sacrifice was Sir Pentious instead.

I definitely understand that, but I like it. It's subversive and I like how the characters are so focused on Angel that they don't see that Pentious is developing in the background and showing him to be a good person. Little things, like when he saves Nifty and starts acting kinder towards his egg bois, that build up and make a re-watch rewarding by showing you what you should have noticed but didn't.

Plus, there's the Doylist reason that Angel clearly has a lot of plot stuff still to do in Hell (Valentino, his family though that might link to heaven as well). Meanwhile, Pentious being in heaven provides a nice shake up of the status quo and a new way to take a character that didn't have as much tying him down to hell.

Edited by king15 on Apr 16th 2024 at 3:37:17 PM

It also shows quite nicely how "It's never too late to change as a person", since Pentious basically spent 136 (to an estimate) years in Hell and in the span of less than half a year at the Hazbin, after finally deciding to become a better person, managed to get the approval of the Black Box that is "Redemption".

Plus it kind of misses the point. Angel has become a (slightly) better person, but it's pointedly not enough for him to fulfill whatever the criteria for redemption is because no one knows what that is supposed to be. In ''Welcome to Heaven" all he does is arbitrarily fulfill a list of things Adam pulls out of his ass. It's not even really a Bait-and-Switch.

On a related note, I'm beginning to be unable to stand every single critique of season 1 shrieking "Angel became a goody-two-shoes offscreen during a time skip! This is literally the opposite of Show, Don't Tell! What were they thinking!!!" He literally hasn't. Not only was Angel never intrinsically a jerk, but the episode is literally about the surprise that Charlie and his other compatriots demonstrate to his good behavior. All the episode is showing is that Angel is willing to let his persona drop if it means protecting his friends and that friendship brings out the best in him, which is something we already mostly knew about him anyway.

Edited by ReginaldOgron5 on Apr 16th 2024 at 9:06:31 AM

I'm gonna start watching this tonight.

Don't skip the pilot.