To-do list:
Consensus was to create two new namespaces for pages currently located in Useful Notes, a Platform/ namespace for media platforms (game consoles, operating systems, etc., like Nintendo Game Cube, Microsoft Windows, and Steam) and a MediaNotes/ namespace for pages containing background information on media, like How Video Game Specs Work or ANSI Standard Broadcast TV Schedule. Thus, the following will need to be done:- Go through the Useful Notes index and see which pages should be moved from UsefulNotes/ to either Platform/ or MediaNotes/.
Original post:
Useful Notes, from what I understand, is meant to be specifically about informing readers about complicated subjects that show up a lot in the media, to help them understand how to properly portray it. These subjects range from historical events to real-life locations and cultures. There's some subjectivity about what's "useful" here, but it's a pretty specific namespace otherwise.However, we also have a class of pages that really don't fit this mold. However, they're in UN because there's no better namespace for them. These are the "media history" pages, such as the pages on various game consoles. They're not work pages because these things aren't tropeworthy, they're not creator pages because they're individual works, tools, or concepts; and they're not trivia because why would they be? They're in Useful Notes because they're informative pages on things related to media, but you'd be hard pressed to say that reading UsefulNotes.Nintendo Game Cube would help you write a book. These pages serve a function that's definitely relevant to the website, but they just don't fit the intended use of Useful Notes.
The reason I'm bringing this up now is because the TRS thread for RetroGaming wants to make it UsefulNotes, which
... I did vote for because at the moment there ain't no rule saying it doesn't go there, but I did make it clear that my true stance is a lot different. I didn't want to derail the discussion though, because Retro Gaming would just be another drop in the ocean, not the problem in and of itself.
This reminds me of the state of the Franchise/ namespace before Derivative Works/ was created pretty recently. The namespace was being used for things it shouldn't be used for simply because we lacked anything more suitable. So one possible solution would just be to create a new namespace for these pages, such as Media History/ or something, to preserve them as their own category.
The other solution is to just expand the definition of "Useful Notes" to include pages like these. I'm not sure I agree with this because in my opinion this would just validate some of the serious decay issues the namespace has (seriously, there are a lot of superfluous pages), but it would also be the easiest thing to do and would allow us to maintain the current status quo.
And of course, you may disagree with me that there's even a problem here at all. I'm just calling it as I see it based on my understanding of the namespace guidelines, especially as UN misuse and bloat has been called out elsewhere in the past.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 23rd 2024 at 1:25:29 PM
MediaNotes.Unreal Engine is done too, so that's nice.
Edited by Malady on Mar 1st 2024 at 8:44:35 AM
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
Jogo
Here's some more Useful Notes pages that should be moved:
- UsefulNotes.MP3 to Platform.MP 3
- UsefulNotes.DC Comics Editors to MediaNotes.DC Comics Editors
- UsefulNotes.Marvel Comics Editors In Chief to MediaNotes.Mavel Comics Editors In Chief
Waffle Cat (she/her)
Agreed with the three you proposed and, after checking in Powered by the Apocalypse, I think Media Notes/ would be more appropriate.
Here there be cats.
Waffle Cat (she/her)
I think Fimfiction.net should be moved to the Platform/ namespace. It's essentially Fanfiction Dot Net but for My Little Pony.
Here there be cats.
Jogo
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I'd be fine moving that site to Platform
lmao
As someone who was just reading a fic there earlier, ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
.
Waffle Cat (she/her)
Great, I'll proceed then.
Here there be cats.
Waffle Cat (she/her)
Have we discussed what to do with Archive of Our Own?
Here there be cats.
lmao
Is there any argument against moving it to Platform/? As far as I'm aware, it's also a platform for (usually) fanfics.
Pantheon Wick Cleaning
He/Him
Not just fanfics but straight up Original Works too
So go ahead with Platform/
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
Waffle Cat (she/her)
I'll migrate ao3 and LiveJournal too, although I might need some help with the wicks. It's a massive count for ao3 at least.
Edit: Done migrating all the wicks of Fimfiction.net (except for a couple of ghost wicks)
Edited by Asterlix on Mar 2nd 2024 at 7:44:05 AM
Here there be cats.
It wasn't a rock
Still not keen on having MediaNotes/ anything be an index. It's not something I'd prioritize, especially when Index Bloat is a problem. For lack of any discussion on this matter, should this be put to a poll?
Edited by GrafVonTirol on Mar 3rd 2024 at 3:17:21 AM
1001 Albums You Must Hear Before You Die (all editions) progress: 426/1089 (39.12%)
lmao
I lean towards MediaNotes/ not being indexes either.
Pantheon Wick Cleaning
Some of them seem like valid indices, like MediaNotes.RPG Maker.
He/Him
Yeah, I think this should be case by case.
But the stuff under history of media types should have no indexing
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
Should the pages with the Useful Notes namespace listed under Formats, such as DVD and CD, be moved to Media Notes?
He/Him
Pretty sure they're platforms, because they're ways people experience music, podcasts, audioplays etc
It wasn't a rock
Even for that I am apprehensive at best; it is alright to have things like Adobe Flash or Unreal Engine list media that use such, but it's not so important for indexing. RPG Maker may be an edge case, since there are plenty of games using that software hosted on the site.
Edited by GrafVonTirol on Mar 4th 2024 at 7:49:28 AM
1001 Albums You Must Hear Before You Die (all editions) progress: 426/1089 (39.12%)
I'm a ok with engines also serving as indexes
Waffle Cat (she/her)
I disagree, it'd only contribute to index bloating. RPG-maker, well, yeah, I could see it as impactful enough to be an index but game engines? Idk, mate.
Here there be cats.
lmao
Is UsefulNotes.Toon Boom fine to move to MediaNotes.Toon Boom in a similar vein to Adobe Flash?
Pantheon Wick Cleaning
Oh that's the competitor I was talking about
Yes
lmao
I found that and a few other game engines(?) listed on Web Games, which ones are good to move to MediaNotes/?
- UsefulNotes.Java to MediaNotes.Java (leaning no cuz Programming Language?)
- UsefulNotes.Microsoft Silverlight to MediaNotes.Microsoft Silverlight (web engine)
- UsefulNotes.The Modding Tree to MediaNotes.The Modding Tree (Java Script based Game Engine)
- UsefulNotes.Pico 8 to MediaNotes.Pico 8 (Game Engine)
- UsefulNotes.Profectus to MediaNotes.Profectus (Java Script based Game Engine)
All of these have a list of games made with said engine/programme.
Also, I now lean that game engines may be fine as indexes, but not media history pages.
Pantheon Wick Cleaning
Crown Description:
Consensus was to create two new namespaces for pages currently located in Useful Notes, a Platform/ namespace for media platforms (game consoles, operating systems, etc., like Nintendo Game Cube, Microsoft Windows, and Steam) and a second namespace for pages containing background information on media, like How Video Game Specs Work or ANSI Standard Broadcast TV Schedule. The name of the namespace for background information on media hasn't been decided yet, so what should its name be?
Yeah, agree on both being moved to Media Notes.
Here there be cats.