Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Schubbie
to Amnās, but Rizzo, please break what has he done section of EP into pharagraphs.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Apr 19th 2024 at 3:23:59 AM
What exactly is the line? Even if it is a throwaway, it could indicate an agency issue.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.Amnās, welcome to the thread
Abstain on Schubbie until we get more info on the line
In honor of Akira ToriyamaEven if it's a throwaway line, that bit about the Dragoneye gives me qualms about agency. Was it implied he was always evil?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsSorry. I thought just hitting Enter would make a paragraph. That didn’t work so I now put on bullet points.
I am currently neutral on Schubbi. His resume sounds evil enough, but since the game is notoriously bad I somehow doubt the creator was successful in making him sufficiently heinous. With further information I will decide one way or another.
Amnas seems like a yes.
FYI, for a new paragraph, you have to hit enter TWICE.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsThe line is mentioned in a book about the Dragoneye the king is reading at the start of the game.
Full text translated: "The Dragoneye is considered to be the most powerful artifact in the world. Once one gains ownership of it, it grants the wielder incredible power than allows him to transform into a stong demon. But there are side effects if you carry the eye: One is no longer able to control himself and according to an old legend, if the Dragoneye get's destroyed an old power will be freed. Dragons will deveasted the land!"
Sadly nothing about Schubbis past is reveald. He did murder the main character's parents when he was a child but it's not clear if it happend before or after he got the Dragoneye.
Edited by NTG on Apr 19th 2024 at 3:39:58 AM
Ok. Well I put bullet points in now instead.
Edit: The Dragoneye line, from the description alone, implies it just took away Schubbi’s inhibitions but didn’t actually make him more evil than he was at the start. So I am now leaning more towards yes, but all I need to finalize that is knowledge of whether other characters (including the leads) are just as bad or worse.
Edited by BrendanRizzo on Apr 19th 2024 at 3:43:27 AM
If it is never revealed whether any of his evil actions were before the got the Dragoneye, that reads to me like the game is implying the artifact turned him evil, so unless there is evidence otherwise I am a to the Duke. An artifact rendering you unable to control yourself is a textbook case of lacking the agency needed to be a CM.
Edited by MasterN on Apr 19th 2024 at 3:47:18 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.No to the Duke. Amnās, though, sounds like a clear-cut yes.
Watch for the sign of the Saint — he will be back!Amnas, Andrew
Duke
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/HerSwitch Schubbie
for Amnās.
for Duke Schubbie.
- Ghostbusters (1984) & Ghostbusters: Afterlife: Ivo Shandor is the founder and architect of the modern Gozerian cult, dedicated to summoning Gozer to Earth so as to wipe out humanity. Building the materials and temples that would be used to perform ritualistic murders in Gozer's name, Shandor's "curse" lead to dozens of miners flinging themselves into a "death pit" built in Gozer's honor, where hundreds of spirits slain by Shandor's cult reside. Shandor's plots result in the unleashing of various evil spirits onto unsuspecting cities to pave the way for Gozer's arrival. Shandor set up multiple backup plans to initiate should his initial summoning of Gozer fail, and in 2021, he rises from the grave in an attempt to work with Gozer in wiping out humanity and ruling over what is left of the Earth.
Shandor after Gozer I assume?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsYessir.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.Amnās now has 5 YES and 0 NO. Can we add the example or is there a waiting period?
Abstain on Duke.
Three day minumum so people have time to dispute it.
Edited by AmateurStorytime on Apr 19th 2024 at 6:53:54 AM
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!for Amnās.
for Duke.
There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.for Amnās.
Quick question: has Room 1408 been approved or definetly downvoted ?
I haven't done a tally yet, and I'm fairly busy right now, so I will need to do it later.
—signature not found—
for Dr. Gross
for Baba and Rana
for Tom
Abstain on Andrew
New EP from me. Curious to hear what you think about this one.
The Work
Das Drachenauge (The Dragoneye) is a game made with the RPG Maker in 2009.In the game the hero David and his his wife Vanessa entering the kingdom of Dillingen (RL German town), while on a treasure hunt. They learn that the vile Duke Schubbi is oppressing the population and spontaneously deiced to kill him.
The game has been criticized because to then 14-year-old creator basically reused the plot from Unterwegs in Düsterburg, one of the most popular German RPG Maker games, for his game without having the charm of the original. He also named the hero after himself, all the good guys after his RL friends and family and the bad guys after people he didn't like.
Unfortunately the game is also no longer available, so this EP is based an Let's Play of the game I watched.
The Candidate
The one and only Duke Schubbie. Who became somewhat of a meme because of his rather silly name. Out of universe he's was the creators neighbor and Schubbie is probably supposed to be an insulting nickname.In-universe he's a brutal tyranny who took over a kingdom by force and kinda looks like a buff biker dude when he's not in his demon form.
His Deeds
Mitigating Factors/Freudian Excuses
There's is a throwaway line at the start of game about a side effect of the Dragoneye being to be no longer able to control oneself while carrying it. This is never brought up again but could explain some of Schubbies behavior.How bad is he compared to ther other villains of the story
Near the end of the game there's a “Knightly Ghost” with an ice troll army who wants to kill a whole village. He's mentioned as this super-powerful being who even Schubbi fears, shows up two minutes later, speaks four sentences and gets unceremoniously killed. The sole reason he exists is to make the game longer. Still for the sake of the heinous standard I have to mention him.Overall Schubbi is worse with him destroying a whole city vs the knight attempting to destroy a single village.
My Verdict
I'll leave it up to you.Edited by NTG on Apr 19th 2024 at 3:18:19 AM