Greta Gerwig's Barbie

That's the thing: Stereotypical Barbie and Beach Ken were literally made for each other. However, they evolved beyond not just their types, but beyond that purpose too. They changed as is the nature of both people and life.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Nov 21st 2023 at 9:58:28 AM

I agree with PhiSat that Ken finding his own kid would make for a good if somewhat similar to the first movie.

That is though I think that meeting Beach Barbie would be interesting.

Edited by Bullman on Nov 21st 2023 at 11:03:08 AM

(4) This isn't a thread for posting proof of that kind of thing without getting really off-topic, firstly. Wasn't really asking for a cross-examination, second.

Though, I'd appreciate if someone who hasn't actually been on the receiving end of that advice, or seen others deal with that sort of problem, not suggest someone who has is "just projecting" or get skeptical about their wording.

My point was when you start with "my personal experience" and then jump to such a broad conclusion encompassing people in general ("It never helps"-your words) and not just you, it's hard to see that as anything other than projection.

Edited by ArthurEld on Nov 21st 2023 at 9:05:58 AM

Apologies. Yeah not everyone has personal experiences.

Beach Ken could have a romance, but it has to be coincidental. It can't be the main focus of the new story.

Anecdotes are useful for understand perspective but no one has to justify them, IMHO. They don't prove anything but can lay context that someone has a strong opinion on a subject.

Weirdly, of all things, this came up with me when I said I didn't trust tractors and would never get on one. As a farmer, hewondered why I was being silly.

And my response was, "Well, my brother died in a tractor accident."

Yeah.

So, yeah, don't need to explain, IMHO.

I think Barbie is established as being civil to Ken but likes him less than every single one of her female friends. Which is fine but a sign she has no interest in romance with him and doesn't seem to even think they're in a romance while he does.

Well, they're fundamentally different characters. Assuming Ken's Bogus Journey or whatever spinoff is still going to be a fundamentally feminist movie, Ken discovering how to be a loving supportive partner is a decent premise.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 22nd 2023 at 4:55:32 AM

What was clever about Barbie Land was that the men were the marginalized society and it goes to show that one extreme is not better than the other because balance and equality is needed instead.

Funny you mention that because I remember reading some critics (can't find them at the moment but I think it was posted here) about how a matriarchical society isn't the same or to some effect like that.

What other character are you referring to being fundamentally different. Because Ken's arc is the one I was referring to ending with him realizing that he doesn't need a love interest and to suddenly go in a second movie "psych you do need one" would cheapen that arc.

Again, I could picture a third movie introducing a love interest and feel like that would make more sense.

Edited by Bullman on Nov 22nd 2023 at 10:13:51 AM

I'm sorry, but this is confusing the heck out of me.

Where are you getting that?

Ken's arc is understanding he's never going to be loved by BARBIE. He also doesn't have anything for himself and needs to find out something for himself because he doesn't have anything without her.

He NEVER thinks that he doesn't need anyone.

Ken makes the patriarchy because he doesn't have anything but Barbie and she's rejected him but it still doesn't make him happy because all he wanted was for her to love him back. Which he realizes will never happen.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 22nd 2023 at 8:17:26 AM

I chose to understand Ken's arc as a representation of how men are expected to be chasing women and to behave as macho as possible to be considered "real" men. He was not so much in love with Barbie as considering that the only choice for him was to pursue her. Otherwise, the ending feels as if one could decide not to be in love with someone, which feels weird to me (though I admit this was not a movie that shot for realism).

I regret that the movie never showed how the Barbies became brainwashed. It would have made an interesting pendant with the magic speech used to unbrainwash them. Also, I don't remember the exact line, but I thought the comment of "they did not have any antibodies against patriarchy" could have applied to the whole population of Barbieland (Kens included).

If they were to do a spin off on Ken, who would you have play his human?

Edited by Bullman on Nov 22nd 2023 at 10:49:28 AM

I mean that's certainly one way of doing it. But I took the Alternate Aesop Interpretation that sometimes you love someone and they don't love you back so you have to accept it. All Love Is Unrequited.

Which is a good lesson for plenty of young men who have Entitled to Have You attitudes.

Not that Ken doesn't have sincere feelings for Barbie.

Ken being a lesson for the Entitled to Have You guys would be a bit of a Broken Aesop for me given how much emphasis was put at the beginning of the film on how shitty his life was.

By the way, I just realised that President Barbie's comment near the end that with some work the Kens could have the same rights the women have in the real world implicitly acknowledges that the Kens' life at the beginning of the film is worse than the 21st century women's.

That's definitely what was intended. The Barbies are the dominant forces in power who hardly give any piece of mind or thought to the Kens. By the end of the movie after the reverse happened, everyone realizes they need to find the right medium to avoid either of those happening again.

I mean they're not allowed on the Supreme Court.

They're too emotional.

/S

I suppose it's a discussion of applicability that is causing this. For me, Ken is a great lesson about how pursuing someone who doesn't like you is a bad idea and it's best to just move on. To not internalize that the rejection by one woman is something that makes your entire being worthless.

Basically demystifying romance and devotion.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 22nd 2023 at 10:34:30 AM

That's not a bad lesson but it's not the lesson. The lesson is that whether or not you are in a romantic relationship with an opposite-gendered human being is not what defines your value as a person. This is why so much emphasis is laid on him being "And Ken".

The perspective laid out from the start of the film is that Ken only exists for Barbie, that he only has value as her boyfriend, that there is no Ken besides the one that comes after the words "Barbie And". His sole function for existing is to be her boyfriend. If he is not her boyfriend then he is nothing. His existence is defined solely and entirely by his role in the ship.

This is what gets challenged at the end of the film, with Barbie helping Ken to realize that he needs to stop defining himself as And Ken and embrace his own intrinsic value as a person. To learn to value himself as his own human being independent of his relationship to any other person.

Like. This is clearly stated. They even put the words "I am Kenough" front and center on his chest for the epilogue. It's really hard to miss this.

To turn around and say, "So the next film should find a new character to be 'XYZ and Ken' because Ken can only find happiness if he's hitched to a woman" is missing the point so hard that it makes me genuinely question if you even watched the same film that everyone else did.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 22nd 2023 at 11:11:10 AM

That Barbie and Ken are each clearly not mature and developed individuals is supposed to also be a major contributing factor to the plot as well because in the bubble they've each lived in, they clearly each have a lot about the world and about life that they don't understand.

Thus Barbie learning that in the film and deciding to take that full step fully in the end. To become more than just the concept and idea that she was for the majority of the movie.

Amusingly, one of the animated movies had the exact opposite message, that it was okay for Ken to not have any career goals besides being Barbie's stay at home boyfriend after he spent the whole movie looking for another life goal.

That one's message was about breaking gender stereotypes and saying it's okay to be a stay at home dad, but it was kind of funny that this movie has the exact opposite (but still good) message.

I think it would be cool for Ken to have a self-discovery movie too since he's now on the beginning of his journey, even if a lot of its points retread on the themes from the first.

Edited by PhiSat on Nov 22nd 2023 at 2:51:07 AM

So, who would you cast as Ken's human owner if they did that?

I don't know much about actors so all I can do is shrug.

Edited by PhiSat on Nov 22nd 2023 at 2:57:02 AM

Or maybe it's also a woman who owned Beach Ken. I imagine more girls owned Barbie toys than boys did. This particular character would've potentially projected feelings of feeling undesired while also wanting to be loved it seems—like how Gloria projected all her world fears pertaining to both being human and being a woman onto Stereotypical Barbie.

Here’s the Cinema Wins for Barbie:

My mom didn't like the movie. Not what she expected. If she ever sees it again, I'm wondering if that would change her mind about it.

(is watching this movie)

poor Barbie getting called a fascist of all things!