Complete Monster Cleanup

Cut both.

Cut Fallout duo

Also should Morpheus' writeup be expanded a bit to elaborate a bit more on how heinous the Unity is? It does mention the Master wages war on humanity, but it doesn't really explain why FEV baptisms are heinous. The Lieutenant's writeup had a bit of that, but since it will no longer be there for extra context...

Fallout duo

So here's who I have being cut this week:

• Are You Afraid of the Dark?: Peter Kirlian III
• Fairy Tail: Acnologia
• Fallout:
  • Fallout: Lieutenant
  • Fallout 4: Zeller
• Firewall: Bill Cox
• God of War Ragnarök: Raven Keeper
• Psycho-Pass: Shogo Makishima

Right got a question about these two although it's not for a cut

• Tales of Arcadia:
  • Bellroc, Keeper of the Flame, is the master of the Arcane Order and one of the primordial demigods who shaped the universe. Discontent with humanity and their corruption of their order, Bellroc grew blind to the damage they inflicted upon the world, simply deciding to destroy it and start over. Bellroc mortally wounds King Arthur to fully corrupt Morgana le Fay and see her overrun and annihilate humanity, attempting to awaken the Titans by forcing the one repenting member of the Order, Nari, to assist despite her will. Bellroc proceeds to awaken the Titans and lead an attempt to uncover the Heartstone at Arcadia Bay, intending to destroy all that lives according to their own ego.
  • Skrael of the North Wind is Bellroc's subordinate and partner in the Order, being perhaps the most viciously sadistic of the trio. Forsaking his own vow of neutrality, Skrael happily joins the fight to kill many humans with intent to completely exterminate them. In between battles, Skrael enjoys torturing his captives, as he viciously does to Steve, later showing a similar glee in hurting Nari as well before forcing her to attempt to awaken the Titans and unmake all in existence.

Now I'm being genuine where do they say they're going to wipe out the universe? The constantly talk about remaking Earth but never the universe or a universal wipeout. It's a plot point in the film that one of the heroes, who's an alien, intends on evacuating humanity if they can't stop Bellroc and Skrael.

There's... a couple missed cuts? Because there are just too many proposals last week:

• Etelgar - two voted to cut (including mine), it was bottompaged and apparently missed out

• John Leslie - was missed out, I gave my two cents but didn't vote, but I think 4 others voted to cut

• Punchinello - 1 vote to cut but the most vote to keep, so this is probably moot

There's another vote to cut for a Bleach character that didn't really go anywhere, I assume that's a keep

Can it be amended to state they intend to wipe out the Earth in that case? (Provided doing so meets the heinous standard.)

Cut Etelgar. I'll read the others tomorow

I had already discussed this with Tyk, but I have an unfortunate cut proposal to make which is Maw from Turbo Overkill.

Now, in the main game Maw is a narcissistic social darwinist with a god complex and a brutal monster, which he is. The issue is that while the nature of his agency wasn't too much of an issue in the main game as he seemed to have a desire to destroy/assimilate the universe prior to losing his mind, he changes in demeanor after merging with Syntech. However, in a recording from a top Syntech scientist that is (unfortunately tucked away) in one of the extremely difficult secret levels the recording in question elaborates on details regarding why that was other than only being mad with power.

The most important part of the recording is the end which is this:"Side effects of year long exposure to Syntech include narcissism, delusions of Grandeur(his god complex), insatiable bloodlust and slow mental deterioration, with no known reversal to the process."

In other words it seems more than likely that the only reason he became as bad as he did is because of Syntech, and although Maw is not even remotely sympathetic or empathetic and was always intending on turning on Syn, the most that is indicated is maybe taking over the world in terms of his plans when he's still in full control of himself. It's over a year later by the time he explains to Johnny about his "assimilate the universe" social darwinist plan and he more than likely is only this bad because of Syntech.

He's a vicious, barbaric sadist, but his agency is extremely sketchy with all of this in mind so I am saying cut.

Edited by MasterWaldon on Apr 27th 2024 at 12:28:42 PM

Cut Maw.

Punchinello I think consensus was a rewrite.

Etelgar should probably get another source besides the wiki.

John Leslie needs more votes.

That bit about John Leslie, while minor, seems like it's that tiny piggle that prevents him from being full 100% monster. I'm saying cut.

I can vouch for MasterWaldon; we did talk yesterday. He found this out a while ago but wasn't aware the cleanup part of the forum was a thing. I personally have not seen/heard this recording, nor have I watched someone on YouTube find this recording (probably because the secret levels are so goddamn rage-enducing). And while I am more than okay replaying this entire game again, I have a plethora of other games on my To-Do list I need to finish just to clear out my backlog. We're just gonna have to cut him for now.

This is frustrating because the only reason why I never brought this up was because this one mitigating factor is included in a secret recording in a secret level that you unlock by finding three secret Cassette Tapes scattered throughout the game.

Cut Maw and Etelgar.

I would like to someone who's seen the whole film to weigh in on John Leslie, as I seem to recall their proposal talking about a series of other polite but mocking interactions with Wells throughout the film, but also leaning to cut.

I think that's a case of Faux Affably Evil. My proposal was based on things like his hesitation at the end and the fact that he doesn't pursue Amy after she gets away. I see he's already been cut from the YMMV page for Time After Time. But if I'm reading the rules correctly, we're supposed to take all the votes into account and that includes the ones that voted to make him a CM in the first place. There were 18 votes in the original thread and we have at most 5 for cutting him now. So I think removing him already is somewhat premature.

Question: For Red Dead (BTW, I cut the page itself and created a Sandbox), should it be:

• Chapter 6: Colonel Henry Favours...
• "American Dreams" sidequest: Edmund Lowry Jr.

Or just:

• Colonel Henry Favours...
• Edmund Lowry Jr.

I personally prefer the former.

Since you're the unofficial CM curator, I just want to make sure I'm reading the rules correctly.

Oh, right, you may have a point about Stevenson. I think I'll lean to cut as well.

Ah, yet another clear diaqualifier hidden in a super-secret part of the game, just like when I had to cut Paula Miner. I really do not like when games do this, but we have to cut Maw either way.

ACW: I also vote for keeping the former. It fits in with the standard of how we order candidates in order of appearance.

Edited by MGD107 on Apr 27th 2024 at 7:54:55 AM

Bye Leslie.

And two video game CM called the Maw getting cut in a row, what are the odds?

In the case of Etelgar, original CUT post here:

Whole movie is on Tsuburaya's YT channel btw, with English subtitles... anyway, without relying on the wiki info, two issues that popped up in a rewatch:

• Halfway into the film, the good guys manage to knock out Princess Arina from Etelgar's Mind Control before delivering Arina to the defense forces' headquarters, where Arina becomes temporarily amnesiac; in an attempt to wake her up, Musashi Haruno (Ultraman Cosmos' human form) tells her that her home, Planet Zante, wasn't destroyed and it can still be rebuilt. The last time we saw Arina, Musashi/Cosmos is giving her a lift... probably back to Planet Zante for her to help with its rebuilding. So nope, no planetary extinction-level Apocalypse How here.

• The CM rule about "treated seriously, In-Universe...." the Ultra Series have its share of CM responsible for destroying entire worlds, and for those cases we see the survivors - to name a few, Zuccal-Seijin, Alien Zamu, Lyrica, Fanton-seijin, the Gyasshi siblings Shau and Jin, Alien Te-Ru, Ignis - all of them reacting with shock, horror, sadness and anger at the Complete Monster responsible for destroying their home planets, and frantically trying to warn the humans to prevent Earth from suffering the same fates. Some of them like Zuccal, Zamu, Shau and Te-Ru even pulled Heroic Sacrifices to help the series' respective Ultramen destroy the Complete Monster and avenge their worlds.
  
  • Heck, there are even planet destroyers confirmed to have wiped out the populations of entire worlds, with grieving leftover survivors as witnesses, like Gamerot who wiped out Professor Dodole and Carolyn's world, Gilvallis driving Airu's race to extinction and Gigadelos destroying Ilit's home planet, but none of them counts due to being Mechanical Monster(s) subjected to A.I. Is a Crapshoot.
    
  • Now compare Princess Arina in her final scenes; after the destruction of Etelgar and his fortress, the freed Princess Arina then thanks the heroes for "helping her to smile" again... without any mention of the damage suffered by her home planet. Or any signs that she's actively in grieving. Initially I write it off as the Princess doesn't have any reason to be upset because the villain is already dead, but... rewatching it, the Princess seems to be relieved she's free of Mind Control, and that she can go home. Because her home planet still exists, she's not among the long list of "grieving survivors" in the aftermath of various planets destroyed by Ultramen CM.

So... yeah, even if the movie flip-flops on how much of Princess Arina's flashbacks of Planet Zante's destruction is real, and how much of it is False Memories... the latter seems more plausible. The Wiki is accurate on this one.

Can use the same reasoning on the Former CM page:

• Ultraman Ginga S The Movie: Showdown! The 10 Ultra Warriors!: Etelgar: The destruction of Planet Zandt is part of a False Memories sequence (in actuality the planet's fine) and his other deeds are more generic for toku standards

Edited by RobertTYL on Apr 27th 2024 at 11:20:51 PM

Cut Leslie and Maw. I think I already voted to cut Etelgar and if not, cut him too.

I prefer the former ordering for the Red Dead page, since as MGD says it's consistent with other pages.

Okay, that's enough for a cut.

Cut the Maw

Cut the Maw and Eltegar

Speaking of cuts, I have two potential ones from Platoon (one I’m more convinced about than the other).

• Complete Monster: There are two Sociopathic Soldiers:
  • Staff Sergeant Robert "Bob" Barnes is a sociopathic brute who believes himself to be the ideal that all American soldiers should strive to be. Already showing himself to be an unforgiving fanatic by regularly degrading his own troops, even as they die all around him, Barnes shows his truly vicious personality when, while leading a raid onto a small Vietnamese village, he kills numerous villagers who are too slow in complying with his orders, before shooting an innocent woman in the head for irritating him. Holding an innocent child at gunpoint in an attempt to force her father to answer his questions, Barnes develops a seething hatred toward Sergeant Elias for halting his crimes, and later guns him down to eliminate the only one who would incriminate him for his murders. In the end, Barnes ruthlessly attempts to murder the only other man willing to stand up to him, Chris Taylor, and goads Taylor into killing him to prove his point that war and conflict is the true state of humankind.
  • Bunny is a psychopathic scumbag who quickly graduates from a particularly nasty jerkass to a full-blown monster. When he and his squad invade a Vietnamese village, Bunny happily beats a disabled teenage boy to death, before doing the same to the boy's mother. Following this, Bunny leads the gang-rape of two young girls, mocking Taylor for not joining in. By the end of the film, Bunny giddily mows down enemy soldiers with a smile on his face, proclaiming that he feels as if he's done nothing wrong and that war is true freedom, enabling people like him in to indulge in whatever wicked acts their hearts desire.

So, in one scene, the platoon are scouting and clearing out an enemy bunker, when one man finds what intel from the Vietnamese. He attempts to take the intel, only to reveal to be a trap, resulting in three men dying in the explosion.

After said explosion, Chris Taylor (Charlie Sheen’s character) see Barnes alone smoking a cigarette, looking rather broken.

Later on, the platoon enter a village they believe are housing NVA, and Chris and others including Bunny, come across a disabled boy and his mother, the former seemingly always smiling. After Taylor makes him “dance”, Bunny calls him a coward and angrily brings up the names of the three deceased soldiers before beating the boy to death. https://youtube.com/watch?v=SBGL1tFtCuM&pp=ygUPUGxhdG9vbiB2aWxsYWdl (1:28 for Bunny, a rape scene appears at the end, so warning)

Now, Bunny I can see not being redeeming. He could have brought up their deaths only to justify his murder to the others and follows said murder with a casually bloodthirsty comment. In Barnes’ case, however, I think it’s meant to be a small humanizing moment for him. His characterization is that of a cruel hardass, so him showing vulnerability like that in a relatively secluded place at least implies the war broke him, if not care for those men in particular. If someone who also saw the film could give their two cents, I’d appreciate it.

Ok, while I'm personally abstaining on Barnes for now, I'm voting to keep Bunny if that's all there is to it. The one time he brings them up is to justify his mistreatment of a handicaped boy and his mother, so I feel like he's at least fine.