CM/MB Policy and Thread Culture

There's a lot to cover with this topic but to start out, I am personally fine with nixing the sandboxes except for the ones ACW mentioned which are useful for the thread's operation. I definitely think that the threads can be saved with new rules on how to behave on them (and I think a big move like locking the threads will help in making sure those rules are actually followed).

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Yeah, I think cutting the sandboxes is perfectly reasonable. I personally don't really care about those at all and didn't realize that was a pervasive issue...

Also...okay, I don't holler new entrants and....yeah, that's problematic and needs to end. I'm wondering what the solution should be. I did call out an issue when we had the brigading from sock puppets from VW when we noticed people charging in.

I agree. That's FAR too much, though.

If the sandboxes are that much of a problem I am fine with them going, it was getting a bit tiring to update them anyway constantly. Moving them offsite is an option, if someone wants to go that route. But that isn't a problem for here.

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes

@laserviking: CM in particular is one of the most common tropes out there, especially since we as a site allow fan made examples. It’s rare to find a work that doesn’t have it so we get a lot of examples, and it’s just based around who happens to read what.

As for ban evaders - the issue is that if someone comes in out of nowhere (especially if they don’t have many wiki edits) and they get the format completely right on the first shot? Nine times out of then, they’ve been a sock

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Oct 7th 2022 at 4:52:20 AM

Do you have any evidence for your nine out of ten claim?

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 7th 2022 at 3:53:13 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Complete Monster seems to have most examples than any other trope including many random works most people likely never heard about. Maybe we also need to limit proposals? I don't know what to do honestly; you guys have better judgement.

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I mean, you're not ENTIRELY wrong, but what if there's a work that may have a CM (EDIT: or MB for that matter) that, like, 5 people all wanna see anyway (let's take popular works like Marvel Cinematic Universe films)? How would it be decided who does the effortpost?

Edited by ACW on Oct 7th 2022 at 4:53:50 AM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

It was just a hyperbolic suggestion but in particular, a user coming in out of nowhere and getting an EP right on the first go (especially with minimal evidence and when the person makes a point to say “I’m new”) has often been UtterKoala ban evading. I obviously don’t have exact numbers but it happens enough to be a noticeable pattern

Personally I am for keeping drafts, discusion dates, to do list, per franchise but with Just for Fun, mb and cm crossover, cm Villain Protagonist crossover, and former cm( maybe Just for Fun)

Sandbox pages can't be linked to pages in the Main namespace or serve as indexes as if they are official articles and sandboxes are for behind the scenes temp projects.

For example, Monster.The Hardy Boys and Monster.The DCU shouldn't be linked on Sandbox.Monster Sandboxes as it's not in the sandbox namespace. Also, it's better to put unfinished projects (like Monster.The Hardy Boys) in sandboxes instead of working on them from the ground up in the Monster namespace.

Edited by MacronNotes on Oct 7th 2022 at 4:54:24 AM

Macron's notes

Another thing I will bring up from the discussions on NRLEP criteria is a tendency for regulars to view posts and votes that don't go their way as being somehow nefarious and invalid.

If that thought process has infested those threads, then there needs to be a serious reevaluation for determining what is holler-able.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me

Hyperbole like that isn't helping the case that the threads are paranoid and think every new account is a ban evader by default.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 7th 2022 at 3:54:53 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

I'm not sure we can measure it statistically, but, I can confidently say it's been a recurring problem. Granted, not in a bit and the recent examples are too much. There is a fine line between caution and paranoia.

Though I can say a lot of people just organically consume a lot of media and propose things. It just happens, rather than being forced. A big part of it in the past was adding a vetting process to reduce the number of bad examples. That part doesn't seem to be too much of a problem.

Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 7th 2022 at 1:56:24 AM

I will also say that there still seem to be people who think that being a CM is a badge of honor. It seems misuse from many years ago... hasn't fully gone away.

Edit: In the past it was more about removing bad examples (I looked at thread history long before I became participant). Now as you said, it became mostly proposing new ones. And I am not gonna lie; I proposeed some myself.

Edited by emperors on Oct 7th 2022 at 4:57:25 AM

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Macron: That's a fair point. So I guess we'd only use the Monster namespace when the Hardy Boys page was ready to launch?

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

Locking the trope down feels unfair to me. I am relatively content with the existing system but I have noticed things getting intense and with lots of debates lately. That being said, I agree with Aronimus that just getting rid of the threads and letting people post examples on their own is preferable to locking the tropes. If there is disagreement in whether someone counts then that is what ask the tropers, private messages, or discussion boards on the ymmv page are for.

Another thought is why we really need sandboxes for approved candidates and can’t just post them ourselves once the Eps are approved as long as we stay in the word limit.

Yeah, we've had many, many examples of ban evaders and sockpuppets being exposed on the threads, and the figure of speech STAR used should not be used as a metric of "paranoia."

All for most of these addendums being put forth and am willing to work on a solution, but the suggestion to eliminate reserving of discussion of certain works and/or seeking out examples? Don't agree with that at all. These are hobby threads and this is a hobby site, if folks want to "search for" examples of a trope, that shouldn't be an issue, IMO. There's a reason these two tropes and their threads are some of the most popular on the site and bring in so much traffic.

Tonight I dine on monkey soup.

@Marco Notes, agree

@Gaton Rabbit, im sorry

Definete agree that abbundance is mostly just people consuming lot of media.

I also agree that there is nothing wrong with people checking out works because they thing it may have cm or mb.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Oct 7th 2022 at 2:02:58 AM

I'm not so sure. If we just did that, we'd probably need another actual cleanup thread before too long.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

The problem is not exclusively sandboxes, or hollers.

A big part of the issue is that the thread is like a club or a team. This automatically implies there are members and non-members. And the friction between the two is a big part of the issue.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Oct 7th 2022 at 11:01:24 AM

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I have to agree with ACW. I don't have a good solution but I certainly don't think unlocking pages and allowing people to post examples isn't the best solution.

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