Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy
So yeah, the BBC now has a policy of "calling someone transphobic is unacceptable, but misgendering someone is perfectly okay".
That's not good.
Not Three Laws compliant.
This is the same organisation that tried to ban some staff from attending Pride on the grounds that it could show a political bias on “the trans issue”. So it doesn’t surprise me.
Should presenters challenge the claim that water is wet also? I mean, accusations shouldn’t be made lightly, but in Rowling’s case she hasn’t exactly been secretive about her opinions on trans people.
Edited by Lyendith on Mar 24th 2024 at 12:09:59 PM
Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy
A lot of the terfs are trying to basically redefine transphobia so it only applies in cases where someone is screaming "I AM MURDERING YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE TRANS" while actively killing someone.
Not Three Laws compliant.
Figure of Hourai
Also the blatant hypocrisy in saying "you need to challenge calling terfs and their ilk something they don't want to call themselves, but they can say whatever about other people."
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![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
even that is too generous towards them
he/him
And the Cass report is out. Including the claim that children are predisposed to choose 'girls' or 'boys' toys corresponding to their gender due to "hormonal influence" rather than purely cultural factors.
It's fair to say that this is attracting some mockery, not to mention questions about the science behind it.
Figure of Hourai
How much of the budget went to hallucinogens to come up with that nonsense? Hormonal influence on _toys_?
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And how exactly did they claim to have separated cultural influence from the kids' choice?
It's this webpage
, right?
Oh, bother.
I fail to see how testosterone makes it more likely for a toddler to choose Optimus Prime over Applejack.
Edited by M84 on Apr 10th 2024 at 7:22:40 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Spitballing: I could see a toddler attributing Optimus Prime a different body type than Applejack, solely based on appearance. Or Optimus Prime may be presented as a boy's toy and Applejack as a girl's one, just like ponies are stereotypically a girl's thing.
Honestly, this report seems to be a longwinded "we don't know yet" on most questions. I notice that it doesn't say that there are demonstrable drawbacks when using hormone blockers, something worth noting when people bitch about corrupting the youth or whatever.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Their summary of conclusions says
which actually means "we threw out 98% of studies on the topic because they weren't double blind clinical trials, despite the fact that is logistically and ethically IMPOSSIBLE to do for gender affirming care."
“Once you’ve been to Cambodia, you’ll never stop wanting to beat Henry Kissinger to death with your bare hands." ~Anthony Bourdain
Figure of Hourai
Ah, but those are the factors any non-stupid study should be controlling for. Somehow. When the only real way to prove their point would be to do unethical trials on giving children hormones for no reason.
I don't think that controlling for such influences (alternative formulation: how to distinguish these two scenarios) is quite that easy if you aren't working with lab animals. And as far as I know, there isn't much evidence that most lab animals have anything like a gender identity. Sexual preferences, sure, that's an established concept in sheep and other species too, but here we are talking about identification. Damn. And now I wonder if this is heading off the topic...
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Figure of Hourai
Well yeah, that's what makes this conclusion ludicrous. It's an argument gender identity is hormonal, but...
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he/him
The Culture Secretary calls for a complete ban on trans athletes in women's sports.
And yes, of course she mentions the Cass review in her statement, even though it has nothing to do with this.
he/him
Here we go again...
Ash Regan, who quit the SNP over the Gender Recognition Reform Bill, is calling for a no-confidence vote in Scottish minister and co-leader of the Greens Patrick Harvie.
This is because Harvie stated that the Cass report has been “politicised and weaponised” against trans people.
Guardian liveblog mentions it in here.
The Best Worst Psychonaut
Bit late to the party, but I just read the recommendations of the Cass Report as stated in this webpage, and as Septimus has said it sounds like a whole load of nothing - basically just 'we should be careful', which sounds like the most obvious conclusion ever. The most iffy thing I could get out of it (besides the recommendation that hormone blockers shouldn't be used until 16/18, which is just status quo ante bellum) is the bit about screening for other mental health issues such as autism spectrum disorders, which I imagine could lead to ND young people being locked out of appropriate treatment, even if on paper it sounds like common sense.
So really I'm wondering what TERFs are seeing in it that I'm not. Are people really just hyper-focusing on minor elements of the text?
"If you think like a child, you will do a child's work."
That makes saying "no blockers until 16/18" essentially the same as "no blockers".
Edited by Medinoc on May 3rd 2024 at 8:52:05 PM
"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Probably just authoritatively referencing it to lend credibility to their arguments regardless of what it actually says, in the hopes that the lazier fence-sitters will just take their word for it and be swayed + believers will be re-affirmed.
Cranks do that with studies all the time, because nobody reads studies or knows how to interpret them whenever they do.
Edited by Chortleous on May 3rd 2024 at 2:49:10 PM
Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
Right - there isn't much point in taking puberty blockers after puberty, and there isn't anything particularly unsafe about them (I recall they shouldn't be taken indefinitely, but they're regularly used as treatment to delay early-onset puberty so restricting them only when the child is trans is obviously prejudiced).
But it's true that while the Cass Report is bad, it also doesn't seem to say nearly as much as proclaimed by the press.
The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable
Foreign Troper
Can somebody explain the current ruckus about the NHS? Did they really ban puberty blockers and declare "biological sex as fact" ?
Edited by Forenperser on May 5th 2024 at 2:40:30 PM
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
They banned them for kids outside of drug trials. With “biological sex as fact” I suspect what you’re seeing is in reaction to the NHS charter being updated to “stress biological sex” in relation to accommodation and patient choice.
My big worry is how the hell they’d look to actually enforce something like that. Because if they’re going to start questioning all staff and patients about their biological sex that’s a huge minefield (and waste of resources). It’s not exactly safe to be a trans individual in the U.K. and I wouldn’t be surprised if anti-trans violence went up if the NHS starts identifying individuals to the general public.
Cross-posted from the British Politics thread:
BBC Presenters Told To Challenge Guests Who Label Others “Transphobic” After J.K. Rowling Errors
It added: “We need to consider the framing of stories, the language we use, the tone of coverage, the context we provide and the labels we apply to the views of contributors. For example, describing someone as either a women’s rights activist or an anti-trans activist is an editorial choice.
“We may also need to challenge claims or assumptions by contributors. Care is needed, for example with use of the term ‘transphobic’ to describe people who would not themselves accept that label.”
This briefing document followed the BBC apologising to noted anti-trans activist J. K. Rowling twice last year after its presenters hadn't challenged accusations of transphobia levelled against her.
Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Mar 24th 2024 at 7:15:23 PM
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