Marvel's Hawkeye

It's sorta that he won't do it if he doesn't have to but if it has to happen, he won't cry about it afterwards.

It does fit with what canoically a lot of marvel heroes do. (Not named Daredevil or spiderman )

Important to note this tends to be basically "the marvel hero creed". A lot of their heroes avoid killing if they can help it, but will kill someone every now and then if the situation demands it.

Them cutting the deleted scene of young Kazi befriending Maya (and learning ASL to communicate with her) makes it really hurt even more that he went along with betraying Maya's dad.

Related: WatchMojo actually made an interesting point in their episode 6 breakdown that the relationships of Kazi, Maya and Fisk has a lot of parallels to the relationships of the 2014 versions of Nebula, Gamora and Thanos in Avengers: Endgame.

Edited by dmcreif on Jan 21st 2022 at 11:39:04 AM

I imagine a lot of it has to do with a lot of the MCU Avengers being fairly closely connected to the military (Natasha, Clint, Steve, Sam, even Tony to a lesser extent) or other warrior culture (Thor). Hulk is a big green rage monster so it's down to Bruce to try and rein in the most destructive impulses there.

They are "Heroes" yes but they come from a background that makes it very clear that some fights are to the death.

Out of all the deleted scenes, that one was the one I thought they should keep. Kazi and Maya's relationship was way underplayed and it took away from their confrontation during the final episode.

Edited by Hawkeye86 on Jan 21st 2022 at 1:12:44 PM

I thought Kazi and Maya's relationship was very fleshed out, to the point I was surprised when Kazi turned out to have a life and relationships outside of Maya, he was such a Satellite Character for her for so long.

When she went up to him at the end asking him to run off with her I thought that was odd, nothing up to that point suggested they were close enough that he'd just drop everything and go. He seemed more loyal to "Uncle" than to her, especially with the hints that he was the one that leaked the tracksuit meeting to Ronin.

Seeing people's reactions to Kingpin in this show, is this a pretty bad case of Broken Base going on here? I would like to say so but I haven't seen anyone in favor of this portrayal of Kingpin so far. This worries me about the Disney+ MCU shows. They won't go further than being PG-13 and are stuck doing the Marvel formula.

I'd say it depends whether you consider this to be the same character as in the Netflix shows or simply a case of Role Reprise. I got the feeling that the MCU have been using the pre-phase Four TV shows as some kind of Expanded Universe that they won't go out of their way to contradict but won't think twice to do so if needed (then again, maybe the fact that I mainly watched AoS makes me bitterly biased).

I didn't have problem with the portrayal. To me the problem was the series suddenly wanting to shoehorn him in the last episode. I agree with what others have said here that it would be better to just introduce him here and give him a bigger role in Echo.

Not only to flesh him out more, but also to benefit audiences who are not familiar with him. I knew who he was since I saw Daredevil, but my parents were confused since they didn't.

Yea, my wife was in the same boat, she had to ask me what the big deal was. His reveal via the photo on the phone is made to be a big deal, but only really works if you watched Daredevil.

I think Marvel Studios is testing the waters. We had cameos from Fisk and Matt, probably the two most universally liked of the Netflix characters. But they were pretty surface level cameos, Fisk being a crime lord and Matt being a blind lawyer with secret super-powers isn't a unique take at all. Down the road I can see them either leaning more into some of the actual plots from the show or backing away and making it just a role reprise (depending on audience reaction).

Edited by Hawkeye86 on Jan 25th 2022 at 10:21:35 AM

I have not watched Daredevil, but at least I knew the Kingpin from the comics and various Spiderman cartoons. I was also suspecting him to be around ever since he appeared half-hidden in Maya's flashback.

Talking about Maya, her reveal as the boss of the Tracksuits was also presented as some kind of big reveal, which left me completely dumbfounded, as this time I knew nothing of the character nor that there was supposed to be a spin-off based on her.

Then again, it would not be the first time we are given a reveal that not everybody can understand without some knowledge of the comics. One could argue that all of Phase 1 movies stingers were this.

Edited by C105 on Jan 25th 2022 at 4:25:31 PM

Why did Maya's reveal leave you dumbfounded? Even stripped of context, it's played like just a typical "here's where we reveal what the boss of the tracksuits looks like". I don't think you need to know who she is ahead of time to be intrigued by her introduction.

I mean even if you don't recognize him as the guy from Daredevil, you recognize him as the Kingpin.

Surprisingly enough, not everyone knows what the Kingpin looks like.

The big difference is that Echo got to be fleshed out as the series progressed. It's a very standard reveal, showing us that this is a weird boss, enough to get audiences intrigued about what was her deal with Ronin, while knowing that we will know more of her in following episodes.

That assumes everyone has the same level of familiarity with Kingpin. If one isn't into comics, or at least some level of Marvel media outside the main MCU movies, you would not know why he was a big deal.

Still, I knew who he was and what he represents, and even then I felt that his appearance did very little to the overall arc.

Edited by Akirakan on Jan 25th 2022 at 11:15:20 AM

The way it was filmed made me think it was supposed to be some important reveal, which I did not understand since it was nobody I knew.

Edited by C105 on Jan 25th 2022 at 5:15:19 PM

The Marvel Studios: Assembled episode for the show is now out on Disney Plus, and with it the deleted scenes that circulated on the Internet a few weeks back.

I still feel that many of the cut scenes should've been retained, particularly the Kingpin ones.

Also, the flashback to Clint's childhood...I'm going to assume that's what Clint would've seen if he had been a bit slower on the draw aboard Klaue's ship in Age of Ultron and couldn't take out Wanda before she could incapacitate him.

Edited by dmcreif on Feb 9th 2022 at 10:33:19 AM

Well, I want to say that I feel bad for both Kate, Echo, and Yelena. All three of them lost someone they have loved, Kate lost her father during the Chitauri Invasion, Echo lost her father, and Yelena lost her sister.

For Yelena, I feel bad for her as despite being hired to kill Clint, she did it because she thought he killed her sister, and even mourned after Clint told her the truth after using her secret whistle. I wished she would’ve gotten a hug to comfort her, and I’m hoping she is doing alright.

It was awesome and heartwarming that Kate and Yelena bonding during the last two episodes of the series.