Sportspeople and Sporting Events Cleanup

People on this wiki have a bad habit of troping the careers of Sportspeople, and the outcomes of sporting events like The Olympics, despite these being Real Life events and not related to how they are portrayed in media.

Problems on Sportspeople specifically:

• It lists both Creator and Useful Notes. Not bad by itself, but
  • Creator/ pages are for those who create tropeworthy content besides their athletic career, like Terry Crews, who is an actor. A sports career by itself is not enough to qualify as a Creator/. So pages like Yuna Kim need to be cut. (It would've been cut anyway for being a stub and troping real life.)
  • Useful Notes pages should focus on portraying individual athletes in fiction. It is not supposed to trope them in real life; any trope list should be about fictional appearances, portrayals, or personas. We should not aim to trope their career achievements or playing styles. Real Life events are not Sports Stories.
• It lists wrestlers when they have their own dedicated index, Professional Wrestling.
• Lastly, there's merit in listing commentators but I personally find the "sports team owners" list kinda useless. Thoughts?

Other miscellaneous notions:

• Advertising tropes can stay as long as the advert in question is cited (eg. National Animal Stereotypes at the Olympics)
• Costumes are not tropable in *most* cases.
• Some trope pages can have real life examples (eg. Disqualification-Induced Victory), but not while troping real people as characters.

Edited by Synchronicity on Aug 3rd 2021 at 12:50:42 PM

Yuna Kim not only should be cut, also the tropes in the page aren't in the proper order.

I think that the tropes in Olympic Games should be removed, since we dont trope real life.

I would really like to move them to somewhere else, since they are interesting, but I just dont know where.

Either way, Useful Notes shouldn't have tropes.

Post no. 2

The opening and closing ceremonies of the Olympics are artistic performances and can be troped. Troping of the sporting events needs to go, though.

I'm also noticing a lot of red links on sportspeople. Should those be cut since we don't want more pages made troping athletes?

Yeah, the opening shows are essentially theatrical productions, and stuff like Mr. Bean at London 2012 is tropeworthy for sure.

I think that would be a good first step; if these people have acting careers they can just be added back. Perhaps we can remove the wrestlers as well and list Professional Wrestling as a related page/subindex?

I've put the list of sportspeople on Sandbox.Sportspeople Cleanup and will be sorting them into "Cut, no relevance to fiction" and "Keep and clean pages" when I get the time.

Edited by Synchronicity on Aug 4th 2021 at 1:45:37 PM

I see a lot of red links in that page.

These pages existed at some point? Or you plan to create them?

Post no. 6

No, I just copied 'em into the sandbox for now. I haven't done any sorting yet

I've created Olympic Ceremonies for the tropes from the Useful Notes page that pertain to the ceremonies of the Games. It still needs an introduction, and I'm open to suggestions for the title and namespace of the final page.

I noticed the YMMV page for the Olympics was also deleted? Anybody have a link to that discussion?

It was discussed here.

Huh, seems like Costanton 11 cut the YMMV page without any discussion about whether that page, in particular, should be cut. I don’t really agree with that, it’s destroying a lot of other peoples’ work without consensus.

A lot of the page dealt with fan reactions to the Olympics. I know we don’t trope real life, but online fandom trends surrounding the Olympics aren’t anymore “real life” than fandom trends surrounding a movie or book.

The ATT thread mentioned that “ This is a site for documenting fiction, not sports performances, and especially not audience reactions to sports performances.” I believe it was stated elsewhere that Useful Notes pages don’t get YMMV pages.

Edited by costanton11 on Aug 8th 2021 at 11:35:11 AM

It’s true, it’s not typical for useful notes pages to get a YMMV subpage, but the Olympics are different from say, a page for a country or a piece of technology. They’re a televised event with a sizable fanbase.

Most useful notes pages don’t get moments of heartwarming or awesome either, but so far we’ve kept those, because people clearly enjoy them, put a lot of work into them, and because removing them wouldn’t actually make the site better.

Was it stated that those moments pages should be kept by mods or did they just slip under the radar?

As Carnildo said:

Well, this makes up a pretty good explanation why they are still there. They are just in an already established namespace.

I think someone made a sandbox for the ceremonies. Maybe someone can make examples for those if they qualify.

Should we also clean The World Cup?

As far as I know, in these events dont exist opening ceremonies like in the Olympics.

Post no. 16

Edited by Braylovsky on Aug 12th 2021 at 9:21:57 AM

Think so.

Honestly, due to the difference between sport Useful Notes and other Useful Notes, a Sports/ namespace might be a good idea.

Problem is, sports aren't works. The tropeworthy bits have nothing to do with the sports themselves. If anything a namespace like that would just cause decay.

^ Excuse me if Im being stupid, but then what about this page?

Its a sports page (wrestling, being more specific) and its listed as a work page.

Pro wrestling has a scripted plot, so it can be troped as fiction.

Right. Wrestlers have characters and story arcs. Baseball doesn't.

, Wait, are you telling me that wrestling is fake? Oh no, that never crossed my mind.

Seriously tho, I really didnt think about that option. Good to know.

On that note, there's been some pushback against the idea of removing sports-based examples and pages and the like. I'm wondering if to really get this rolling we need a wiki talk thread or something first.