Shadow and Bone

In the flashback, Baghra specifically mentioned magic that wasn't the Small Science, saying it's what the Bonesmith did that created the amplifier animals (and maybe the Dark Summoner bloodline too, or maybe all Grisha, or something). Then, when Kirigan was surrounded, he cast a spell—very clearly not touching his hands and speaking some words instead. That's what created the Fold and mutated everyone inside into the volcra.

It would have been nice to get an explicit explanation for how he's a human amplifier, too, but I figured it was just a side effect of him having incorporated so many amplifiers into his own body. We later see that amplifiers work while they're alive (with Alina's powers getting boosted to shield the stag), but presumably hauling around giant mythical animals isn't worth the trouble when you can just kill them instead.

Ah Ok, I was confused for a sec. I thought you meant something in the show suggested he wasn't grisha at all XD

I'm pretty sure the show will go deeper into amplifiers and that type of magic next season.

A wrong caption set, for you (spoilers).

Well, this show interested me more than I thought it would. I've never read the books, so I had no idea what I would be watching when I started. It's freakily similar to a fantasy story I wrote when I was a teenager though, which is a little amusing.

Anyway, it seems decent enough although a little sketchy at times on the relationship between Small Science and magic. I get that magic is dangerous, unpredictable and all but uncontrollable, but does the emphasis on Small Science being Equivalent Exchange mean that magic comes from 'nothing' or does it come from 'Something Else'? It seemed like Kirigan was using his life force or soul, but I'm not completely clear on that.

Parts of the show were very predictable (it was pretty obvious the moment Inej was given the contract by Heleen who the target was going to be). On the other hand, after what happened in the first episode, I spent the entire season expecting the Stag to be a bit of a red herring in favour of revealing that Mal is Alina's true amplifier — her powers seem to boost every time they reach for each other in a moment of crisis. I guess I'm either wrong on that front, or Mal being Alina's true amplifier is a long-game reveal.

Edited by Wyldchyld on May 1st 2021 at 11:05:27 AM

I suspect Mal is either a human amplifier like Kirigan but without any specific abilities himself, or he has a special connection with amplifying animals that manifested in him being a great tracker before he was pulled into the world of magic small science. I'm pretty sure he was the only one depicted as hearing a ringing sound whenever the stag was nearby. I'm not sure if it's possible that grisha tests would miss someone if their ability only related to amplifying or tracking amplifiers, and I'm guessing he still had to take the test as a child at some point.

Regarding Baghra, she totally had assassins waiting at the end of the hallway she told Alina to take right? I'm torn because she seemed genuinely caring towards her as she helped her escape and probably could have killed her herself if that was what she wanted, but on the other hand, she's had even more centuries than her dear son to perfect the art of manipulating overwhelmed and confused innocents.

Edited by TravelPsych on May 22nd 2021 at 10:58:43 AM

Regarding Mal, I'm inclined to suspect that he's either grisha or an amplifier: I note that the narrative placed a fair bit of emphasis on the fact that neither Alina nor Mal were tested as children. And as noted above, Alina's powers did seem to be amplified on at least one occasion in which she was very clearly shown to be in contact with him.

Regarding "magic" and "the small sciences", I kinda liked that "magic" was kept mysterious; this unknown thing at the edges of the world that offers unstable, tempting power.

Overall, having now watched the series, I very much enjoyed it! I thought that it was well-written and well-acted; that the effects held up (Alina's light looked particularly good, to my eye); that the design-work was lovely; and that the plot was engaging. ^_^

I also rather liked having a fantasy setting that wasn't "mediaeval/Arthurian England" or the like. And not only in having its basis in another culture, but also in presenting a world that had moved beyond mediaeval technology!

On that note, there was a scene in which someone implied that grisha would cease to be all that useful to the armies. However, I'm not convinced that this is likely: It's true that fire-grisha seem likely to be outperformed by improved firearms in due time. But having people who can control the wind, or kill silently and covertly—or heal without expending significant resources, and so on, seems likely to remain useful for a very long time indeed.

Agreed on usefulness of Grisha. They might not be deployed the same, but they’ll absolutely be incredibly valuable assets and adaptable. One thing I picked up on was Durasts not being that highly regarded and I think that’ll change as technology marches on, especially once there’s no need or desire to see Grisha purely in terms of their battlefield usefulness.

I was wondering about the test and wasn’t sure if Mal was tested a later year because of his obvious injury whereas Alina never was because she assumed to be fine.

That they built up magic as something mysterious and uncontrollable is also something I liked, and I think it goes well with the practical limitations they put on the use of small science. It means magic operates at this higher, almost mythical, level.

Apropos of nothing, Feydor and Ivan are so adorable. My dearest dangerous and adorable duo. And I’m surprised about how invested I am in the Crows. Not sure I would’ve gotten as far in the show, at least not as fast, had it not been for their subplot. I’m glad I did because the main story became more interesting the more I watched. As for the last episode, no body no death and can’t nobody tell me otherwise, plus they made a point of focusing on Jesper saying he couldn’t shoot him in the head and people have survived partial journeys on foot through the fold before. Ivan lives! Fivan is fine!

Edited by TravelPsych on May 22nd 2021 at 6:39:57 AM

I really liked the series and I hope that it leads to more fantasy adaptations that are not ultra gory (although Shadow and Bone could be surprisingly gory at times).

I agree that Grisha are useful militarily, but I like how the series deals with empowered individuals in a somewhat different way than say X-Men or The Legend of Korra (thinking of the infamous Equalist plotline). Because what's really unique is that Grisha are pretty new to being accepted at all in Ravka, and with technological advancement, the pragmatic reason for them being tolerated could go away.

I also find it interesting that although there is a line about Grisha being jerks to muggle soldiers, there isn't really anyone, even the Darkling himself, that is a Grisha supremacist. And like despite being kind of snobby, Zoya is perfectly friendly to Mal and Inej.

One other thought, related to Ivan and Fedor - I like how almost everyone in the cast (Mal and Alina excepted) is some form of Anti-Villain, and it leads to interesting situations when the Crows face off against the Grisha characters, because the audience sympathizes with characters on both sides. It makes for a Mook Horror Show in both directions.

Edited by Hodor2 on May 22nd 2021 at 8:57:30 AM

I got the impression that the reason the Grisha are treated as purely military assets (with the resulting problems as they become obsolete compared to weapons technology) is because Ravka is an expansionist, imperialistic nation. Their first thought is always "how do we use this for war?"

And that's a running theme I've seen in a lot of modern fantasy. Everyone knows about the millions of super dark stories about assholes in an asshole world, where killing off the nice people is considered "mature," but this is still part of it. Where the closest thing to a heroic nation is The Empire, and all their neighbors are at least as bad. I don't need every nation to be The Good Kingdom, but whatever happened to "flawed but good" nations that make some attempt to help their citizens?

Yeah. I'd have to agree. My understanding from sequel books is that things eventually get better for both Grisha and the world as a whole. It is pretty bad though that the options for a Grisha are becoming a military asset (Ravka) being burned at the stake (Fjerda), being vivisected (Shu-Han), or working as an indentured servant (Ketterdam).

I may be wrong, but I had the impression that each child was tested only once. It seemed to be a point of bonding between Alina and Mal that neither had been tested at all.

I can very much believe that.

Indeed, if more peaceful times come to Ravka, it might be interesting to see what new places the grisha find for themselves in society.

Healers and tailors seem likely to have little trouble. Squallers I could see remaining useful for ships. Inferni... Likely have uses of some sort, I daresay. Heartrenders... Aside from less-salubrious purposes, maybe some of them might have a place in psychology...?

(I didn't get a good feel for the other grisha—the ones who could sense metal, or move it inside a door, etc.)

Actually, there's an interesting thought: If grisha are freed up for non-military usage, and squallers move to non-military propulsion, would there be much incentive for the development of other means of propulsion? Why mine, burn, and choke on coal when you could just have someone point and raise the wind?

That is fair, I do think.

Not to be that person who compares every elemental powers work to Avatar: The Last Airbender, but that also had a bunch of non-practical bending uses in the sidelines (city transport made entirely out of clever sliding rock placement, etc, airbending used for glassblowing), to the point that once they put their heads together the technology level of the setting covered like 200 years of real-life industrialization in 70.

Of note, much of the engineering in ATLA appeared to have been on the Fire Nation side because they were imperialist conquerors developing weapons of war, so their engineers were able to invent clever ways of channeling heat. By the sequel, Shock and Awe was a common part of the firebender powerset, so they were directly contributing electricity instead.

My semi-crackpot theory for keeping them in the plot is that Kirigan hears of jurda parem.

OOOH Yes. Good tie in with the jurda parem

Also I'm just really excited to finally get me a live action Wylan XD

Edited by Sisi on May 27th 2021 at 12:27:32 PM

There's a good argument that Magneto was right in his actions.

Yeah, at the moment, I'm interpreting it as Mal not having had the test done at all. There was some mention in the flashback that their out-of-the-way location meant that the Grisha testers didn't come by every year, so Mal's injury meant that he missed out completely on being tested.

The narrative certainly seems to be pushing the idea that Mal has never been tested.

That was pretty much how I was feeling as well. I did have the extra hook in that main plot seemed bizarrely similar to a fantasy story I wrote in my youth, which kept me watching to see if the similarities would hold. However, once the main plot took off, it became very engaging.

What does the Master of Magnetism have to do with this?

Either wrong thread (likely) or likening his motivations to Kirigan (maybe less likely)

Shadow and Bone was the most-watched streaming release from April 26-May 2

That the central antagonist is correct that the world is genocidal to magical people and extreme measures are required.

However said person also maybe has made it worse since terrifying the Muggles feeds that.

The show does it make it clear that he's become a Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist; he's paying lip service to Grisha liberation but is also, like, a selfish power-hungry guy.

It's official guys...NETFLIX GREENLIT SEASON 2

That means we're gonna get Wylan and Nikolai

Any book fans want to pitch potential casting?

Edited by Sisi on Jun 7th 2021 at 1:00:10 PM

I'm glad to read of another season being greenlit! ^_^

Yaaaaassssss!!! So excited for season 2. Looking forward to more behind the scenes adorableness almost as much as the show itself. Hoping Ivan just suffered a bit of a tumble and will be back, and that a certain someone of significance to Nadia is introduced.

Yeah pretty much. He started off with a noble goal like a lot of revolutionaries but now isn't any better at heart then the guys he fought.

Bumping with casting news!

• Lewis Tan (we love to see it) and Anna Leong Brophy as the Yul-Bataar twins
• Patrick Gibson as Nikolai Lantsov
• Jack Wolfe as Wylan Hendriks

That last one at least confirms Crows in S2.