X Meets Y Nuances: ZCEs, Bloated Entries, and Fan Myopia

Yeah, that is horrendous... The entries for Isamu Fuwa and Yua Yaiba on Live Action TV Characters Kamen Rider Reiwa Phase 1 are longer than my 18:9 mobile view (with Sticky Header on). Even Chromatin has at most eleven different atoms according to this (but don't quote me on that since I'm not a chemist).

Maybe we could put some hard limit on additives per entry (like ten) or disallow any characters with just a passing resemblance (so if I try to say X resembles Y because they have a Waking Non Sequitur scene, it doesn't count). Or some of the solutions suggested earlier, which are stricter.

Edited by Piterpicher on Oct 30th 2021 at 9:15:27 PM

I have to wonder if all these Kamen Rider entries were done by one pesky troper. The Metroid page that I had to cut was filled with MULTIPLE entries about multiple Kamen Rider.

We should set up a rule that if works have too many examples, they should be broken up into separate examples.

I agree Isamu Fuwa and Yua Yaiba's entries are extremely longer and we should restrict the components from 10-15. When the character switch sides or take new avatars, they write examples for that like Yua Yaiba (ZAIA) and Kento Fukamiya (Calibur).

Their are some minor characters added to the entries of other characters and I wanted to delete it because they are unwanted.

Edited by SoulBuy on Nov 1st 2021 at 6:59:20 AM

Honestly I don't care about ZCE on "X Meets Y" because the whole point of an "X Meets Y" pitch is to sell a work quickly by comparing it to other beloved works. We don't need to explain everything, especially as it's JFF.

I do, however, agree that we should only limit it to 2 or 3 works per entry. I also think we should limit it to works and not characters from works.

you make a good point might ymewtron.

Edited by Kofboy on Nov 21st 2021 at 7:11:40 AM

I wouldn't mind characters being listed, but they should also be limited to three each.

I think characters should be limited to 10-15.

Edited by SoulBuy on Nov 28th 2021 at 7:34:12 AM

10-15 characters, or 10-15 compared works? I don't see the point in limiting characters unless we gut characters entirely, but limiting works will cut down on shoehorning.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 28th 2021 at 10:48:21 AM

More than 3-5 comparisons in a single line is already a stretch IMHO.

Also pinging ~TimeKnight and ~Ken10 here for a discussion as the page's active editors.

Edited by Amonimus on Nov 28th 2021 at 7:59:28 PM

An alternative would be to just embrace the low bar of JFF and require signed entries, so instead of worrying about how accurate the examples are we'd enforce the idea that everyone's entry is their own opinion and perspective.

[redoing]

Edited by Amonimus on Nov 28th 2021 at 8:00:34 PM

And ~n3xus as well.

If that's done, it would be easier to introduce a limit preventing a user from adding an excessive number of entries for a single work. If there's a limit, maybe people will be more considerate of what they add. That might be considered too formal for Just for Fun though.

Edited by N1KF on Nov 28th 2021 at 11:02:13 AM

Also alternatively, a sandbox could be organized with everyone voting who fits who (1700 of them?) and suggestions with least votes be cut, then further additions to be settled in the Discussion tab.

That reminds me of how the Crowning Moments pages used to work (or so I've heard). I wonder bringing it back in some form would be successful.

I don't think signing will help anything. It's not as based in opinion as Crowning Moments and Dethroning Moment, or at least it shouldn't be. The limitations (i.e. "only X amount of comparisons per entry") would be much easier to enforce.

Eh, I guess I just struggle with the idea of limiting things in the JFF namespace. It's not a free for all, but I also don't want pages over there to become so rule heavy that the actual "fun" part of the name becomes an Artifact Title.

I hate limiting things too, but when the lack of limitations goes against the entire point of the page, then it feels like we need restrictions.

X Meets Y is for snappy summaries (that's why it's a common format for industry pitches), and if the work is described by combining like, ten other works, then are you really conveying anything specific about it?

Yeah, that's fair...

Though admittedly this trope is such a headache that if possible I'd be willing to just cut it entirely. It's not worth the issues it's been causing. That's just my hot take, though.

I mean, does it run into that much trouble outside of this specific franchise with these few tropers? We need to fix it, yeah, but cutting it feels like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

I'm almost itching to just lock and clean the XMeetsY.Live Action TV Characters Kamen Rider subpages specifically. I don't have enough knowledge of the franchise to do so personally, but they are all ridiculously long and I don't see the point.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 28th 2021 at 1:40:06 PM

I mean, I've seen a lot of edit wars and tropers who got banned specifically for changing people's entries... And the bloat and fan myopia is also pretty bad...

Like I said, I know it's an extremist take and probably not actually viable. Just how I feel at this particular moment in time.

Both the checking other pages and cutting sound like a TRS thing, no?

Edited by Amonimus on Nov 28th 2021 at 9:53:10 PM

Yeah. I don't think anyone is suggesting we do those things here.

I honestly don't think the ZCE and Fan Myopia is a big problem given it's JFF. Again, I'm thinking in offsite terms, where the whole point of "X Meets Y" pitches is that you can succinctly summarize a work using other works as a reference, because you presume your target knows them.

I guess you could add an explanation in a note or something but like, is that an issue when it's a game page? The reason I hate the example bloat is because it just straight-up doesn't make sense for the format of the game to add a dozen works. It's not a succinct comparison and won't make it clear what the work (or character, whatever) is all about.

Also, IIRC, the people who got banned for changing entries were also mucking around on the Kamen Rider pages, right? Or is this something else? I think these specific pages have some weird possessiveness issues.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 28th 2021 at 2:08:10 PM