Overshadowed By Controversy Cleanup

From the Kingdom Hearts page, seems more like complaining to me:

• Overshadowed by Controversy: Starting from Dream Drop Distance, the series started to suffer of this. Between the convoluted time travel plan of the villains that invalidated everything the heroes did and the Dark Is Not Evil aesop, further convolutions brought in by the mobile game and the general uproar at Kingdom Hearts III's ending, many fans refuse to accept the mobile game as canon, and even those who do only see the Lost Masters arc with apathy. Those games also turned Xehanort, previously well-liked as a villain, into the most divisive character in the series, with his time-travelling young self in particular being a fandom pariah, until Xehanort as a whole became one when he was Easily Forgiven despite there literally being no reason to forgive him. And the reveal that Xigbar and Luxu are the same person also turned the two, also previously well-liked, into fandom pariahs themselves.

Cut that since the entry is literally just complaining about Kingdom Hearts and it doesn't even describe a single controversy involving the series.

That only sounds like a complaint toward the game then actually being a controversy so cut that.

Kingdom Hearts has become infamous for its convoluted plot. But overshadowed by it? No.

Now that it's been six months since the incident arose, we need to address the elephant in the room with YMMV.Yandere Simulator: (and yes I said I wouldn't go back to that page but no one brought this example up before so I'm doing it anyways)

• A new controversy arose in January 2024 when Estrine Studios, famous for dubbing Linked Universe, claimed that YandereDev was a pedophile while firing one of their voice actors for associating with him, saying that other voice actors voiced discomfort with working alongside the voice actor in question, and some had even left the studio in protest.^note (However, the video where this claim was made has since been marked Private.) This in turn caused many people to jump ship from YanSim and sever ties with Dev.

The example in question was added back in January without even a consensus, and considering how often the No Recent Examples, Please! rule for OBC is ignored, I don't see why this example shouldn't be cut.

The example also doesn't make sense to me. People jumped ship from the game because an unrelated studio called the dev a pedophile, after he already admitted to the allegations?

Remove it.

Would Louis B Mayer be included in the Real Life section of OBC? I do admit him abusing Judy Garland is the only thing I know of about him but if there’s anything else he had done that counts as OBC, I would appreciate it.

There might be new controversies rising with Poppy Playtime, due to Glassdoor reviews of Mob Entertainment painting a more negative picture of the company. Specifically one where racism, sexism, being fired at the drop of a hat, and complaints about stress from cramming come up. These in turn have lead to new controversies about the company primarily existing to make money off the toys, at the expense of the game that inspires them.

Well, since Overshadowed by Controversy has a 6-month waiting period, we'll have to wait and see what happen.

The YMMV.Project Moon page was created by Mr-ex777 with the exact same example used in YMMV.Limbus Company and in the Overshadowed by Controversy, albeit with some modifications:

• Overshadowed by Controversy: Once a promising upstart indie gaming company, its reputation has been tainted during the release of Limbus Company's Intervallo IV.5, some players complained that the Molar Boatworks Identities of Ishmael wasn't sexualized enough and claimed that the game was tainted by feminist extremists, and framed the CG artist, Vellmori as one of them over alleged dogwhistling in cutscene artwork, causing them to supposedly lay her off and starting a series of uproars within not just the fandom, but also by the Korean game community as well. While it was later revealed that Vellmori voluntarily resigned due to the harassment, the incident remains as a major problem of South Korea's infamous gender war issues, and any discussions about the company or its games are inevitably going to involve the Vellmori incident at some point.

Just asking, is YMMV for creators not allowed?

From Administrivia.What Goes Where On The Wiki:

Creator articles:

• Never get YMMV examples, on the main or any subpages. This is because we don't trope real people, ever.
  • The sole exception is when the YMMV example is about a creator's work and we do not have an article for that work. In that specific case, it can go on a YMMV subpage for the creator.
  • Avoid "general" YMMV examples about a creator's entire body of work. Those are hard to distinguish from talking about the creator themselves. See also "Examples Are Not General" on How to Write an Example.

Edited by KUnlimited on Mar 31st 2024 at 2:44:43 PM

Oh, I noticed that he actually moved the entry for some reason. Am I free to move it back?

I don't know if it's even valid, but I would say yes for now.

I wanna add Willy Moon and Natalia Kills (nowadays known for their disgusting attitude towards one of the contestants in the New Zealand version of The X Factor back in 2015) but I'm debating whether they should be included in Live-Action TV section or Real Life section.

Found this recently added entry on the page:

• Lackadaisy lead animator Zebirdbrain suffered from this in the summer of 2023 when she rejected Vivziepop's $5,000 pledge, as well as allegations of abuse and transphobia from Billie Bust Up! and Spooky Month animatiors Jaydanimate and Declan van West (aka Velocity) respectively. In response to the accusations, director Fable Siegel denied them, with creator Tracy Butler and lead of clean up Ashley Nichols supporting Fable's claims. After this response, many people fell out of love with the show.

Now, I have not heard of this controversy until reading the page but I want to make sure if the whole mess overshadowed the show since the "fell out of love" reads more as disappointment of the creator's action (which is valid, but doesn't seem to apply, since it doesn't mention the show being OBC).

Edit: grammar fixes

Edited by Ayumi-chan on Apr 11th 2024 at 9:21:18 PM

Bumping

Reads as a weak example to me, with the phrasing implying that the controversy may be isolated to one animator, and it doesn't overshadow the show itself.

I'm not in the fandom, so I can't speak from personal experience, but I'm just going off how the example is written.

By all accounts the Ze/Viv spat should be OBC but evidently Tracy is really good at making people forget.

It doesn't matter whether is should be, but whether it is or not.

I agree. If people forgot the controversy, regardless of whether that's a good or bad thing, then it's not an example of Overshadowed by Controversy.

Correct. OBC is very much not about how justified the controversy is, it’s about whether it hits the overshadowed threshold. It’s possible for a work to overcome it in the long run and become a historical example, but that’s not feasible when the controversy was last year.

I was about to add this entry of infamous tv host Joe Pyne in Real Life section:

• Television host Joe Pyne is nowadays known for having very controversial and bigoted views as well as making inflammatory comments in his infamous talk show The Joe Pyne Show. He even once invited the members of The Ku Klux Klan, American Nazi Party, and the Manson Family to his show.

Owing to the convo above, I'm still debating I should add this or not, considering he's mostly forgotten these days (unless you happened to stumble on bunch of posts retelling a story where Frank Zappa insulted him after Joe Pyne made a snide remark about his long hair and said "shouldn't you be a woman?"), even I admit I never heard who's Pyne is until I saw that Zappa post and looked him up but I still feel it's something that should be included because he's a pretty notorious man for his bigoted views and his controversial hosting style. I appreciate any answers to this one.

Edited by RayKVega423 on Apr 16th 2024 at 8:59:34 AM

It kinda just sounds like someone who is controversial for being controversial. Like it seems to be his whole thing. So it wouldn't count.

Sounds like a Shock Jock, who I think shouldn't count on principle unless they only get remembered for one particular controversy above all.

Good point