Politics in Media - The Good, the Bad, and the Preachy

The Locked Tomb has medical necromancy, which a character (a necromancer himself) calls out as being rather contradictory, as using necromancy causes harm. Not only does it's use cause harm, injury, illness, or death are necessary for necros to even use their powers. If nothing is hurt, dying, or dead, they can't do anything.

It can be used it heal rather grievous injuries, though, including ones that would cause exsanguination within minutes. They can have their injured soldiers back up and combat capable within an hour.

They can't really regrow limbs, though. They can replace it with a donated limb, but the quality comes down to the skill of the necromancer. Sometimes the limb is the limb is just the bones, but if the bone magician is any good, it's fine. When Harrow - one of the protagonists - does regrow someone else's arm, it's a testament to her skill and power. She only regenerates the bone (and nerves iirc), but it works perfectly.

It's also used for reproductive health. A flesh magician can use their powers to grow a fetus in a vat, even if the parents have same sex chromosomes (which is treated as entirely seperate from gender). This is good for the necromancers in particular: as they're basically all sickly and frail, pregnancy tends to be difficult.

Edited by SilentColossus on Apr 18th 2024 at 11:05:36 AM

The issue with Batman and the discussion revolving around his wealth and Gotham relates to around three main factors:

1. How benevolent or sane Bruce is.

2. How wealthy he is.

3. How many financial/economic issues are currently plaguing Gotham.

Depending on the story and continuity, these three factors are constantly in flux. The main point of contention comes in stories where Bruce is this super benevolent ubermensch who can logically deduce the best solution to any problem, has a personal wealth that puts California to shame 5 times over, and there is a housing/employment/food shortage/medical accessibility/(insert problem that can literally be solved by throwing money at it) in Gotham. If you removed any one of these three legs, the issue no longer presents itself. And plenty of stories do, either because Bruce's mental health causes him to not think rationally in certain matters, he is an old money Gotham millionaire rather than a rival to Scrooge McDuck, or Gotham is only hounded by problems that can't be solved by money, like all your masked supervillains or eldritch abominations.

And part of it is that some have become jaded with ultra-wealth as a superpower, due to how it interacts with our current feelings about the world. Plenty of us have questions revolving around the ethics of becoming ultra-wealthy, the solutions to issues proposed from their viewpoint as a general class, and how a large chunk of their "philanthropy" is not out of altruism, but as a form of a PR fund, a way of countering the scale of some of their other unethical behavior. Same reason I didn't like the Pixar short, Bao, due to personal baggage of how it played out living under a very controlling overprotective Asian mom and the resolution that it was the son who had to make the first step to reconcile. Media is absorbed primarily through emotions, not logic, after all.

Any such discussion over what Bruce can/should do is hampered by the combination of Status Quo Is God and Reed Richards Is Useless, meaning that no matter what he does or how "good" he is, Gotham can never stop generating supervillains for him to fight.

I would assume Gotham would make quite a bit of progress with Batman's rogues gallery if they get rid of Arkham Asylum and replace it with a more functioning mental health hospital. Also if gotham's corrupt cops are going to be always corrupt, it is always surprising that said corrupt officials have never tried to kill any of the super villians, even joker, enroute for some reason. I can get with the rich ones but how the hell does no cop have any vendetta with the joker or the not so rich insane criminals that they acted on.

Naturally, with a Comic Book character there's a lot of Depending on the Writer.

In fairness I would argue some versions of Batman paint Bruce Wayne as merely a sort of Idle Rich cover identity, which does raise those sorts of questions. Also, Batman is sometimes shown to use more brutality than necessary.

Having said that, I think a lot of that type of criticism comes from someone having a bias towards the narrative and imposing one's interpretation on the narrative. They're approaching the narrative from the angle that Batman is a toxic power fantasy about a billionaire beating up poor people, and creating an interpretation of Batman around that. Sometimes, they do so sloppily.

You completely missed what I said. The reason Batman can't fix Gotham's problems is that, if he did, there would be no more Batman stories. It's purely Doylist.

Asking "why not X" in a story, when X would invalidate the premise of the story, is useless. It's like, "Why don't the protagonist and their love interest talk things out instead of engaging in a romantic comedy for two hours?" I think you just answered your own question.

If the fish weren't tainted, a war vet with PTSD wouldn't be forced to fly the plane.

If the square-cube law were observed in Transformers, we wouldn't get to see giant robots punching each other.

Why are there so many helicopters in Kong: Skull Island? Because the director wanted lots of helicopters.

That is the answer to the question.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 18th 2024 at 1:32:01 PM

Though at certain points, certain creative decisions will strain people's Suspension of Disbelief. Make Bruce rich enough to buy California and you begin to wonder why he couldn't just rebuild Gotham in his own image like Lex. If Flash is fast enough that he can cross the universe in Planck time, why is he still able to get shot with a regular sniper rifle with a bullet he can outrun with attosecond reaction time. How come Krillin is strong enough that he can blow up a planet and at least 10K times stronger than Goku at DB's start, but kid Goku can take a rifle shot to the face, but Krillin draws blood with a shot to the arm? It gets to a point where "because the writer wants it", becomes "as a reader, that's too far."

The writers could always just have Batman go beyond Gotham. He is a founding member of the justice league who are meant to be pan earth protectors. There is no real reason to have him be restricted to Gotham's setting, when heis regular friends with superheroes across the planet and even beyond that.

There are plenty of stories where Batman leaves Gotham. I assume it falls into absolute chaos and is ruled by criminal empires while he's away... except it doesn't, because the writers don't want to write that. Unless it does, because they do.

Sure, fans can revolt at writing decisions. Suspension of disbelief can be broken. My wife, for example, has zero suspension of disbelief for superhero stories and thus doesn't enjoy them. I have very limited suspension of disbelief for soap operas and romantic comedies, ditto.

What I'm saying is not to stop being critical about media. I'm saying that trying to compare or analyze media in context with real life always runs into the Doylist wall at some point. There is a limit to how deep analysis can go and be useful.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 18th 2024 at 1:41:27 PM

Tradition?

Batman and Gotham are like Tom and Jerry; none can exist without the other; they have been so since the 1930s, and they are not going to change now.

American superhero comics are not like European bande dessinée or Japaness manga, the story is not allowed to evolve behind the intial premisis, Batman is stuck in a "Groundhog Day" Loop where he will remain in Gotham fighting the Joker for eternity.

Edited by jawal on Apr 18th 2024 at 6:40:28 PM

My stance on this is that Batman doesn't hate the poor and the mentally ill. But some of his writers do.

Edited by windleopard on Apr 18th 2024 at 7:35:38 PM

With Batman, I will say that it's worth noting that some of it is a bit...relative? Like, before Batman it's implied Gotham was an even worse place to live. So, Batman actually does improve Gotham, it's just that even an improved Gotham still has issues.

Though, personally, I think some of the Status Quo Is God stuff comes from...overthinking continuity? IMO, you should think of Batman as being akin to something like The Peanuts kids seldom aging much.

Don't think of all Batman stories as being part of a linear continuity where everything definitely happened. Think if it as being a nebulous cloud of events that may or may not have happened between the time of Batman donning his cape and hanging it up for the last time. Maybe Batman fought Dracula, maybe he stopped Joker's plans with the Titan formula, maybe he teamed up with the Ninja Turtles, maybe he teamed up with Mystery Inc, maybe he stopped Bane from nuking Gotham. If you demand that all of these things are simultaneously canon and for this to make sense, then yes it becomes a bit silly.

Holy logically incoherent takes, Batman!

Who is Batman but a character crafted by writers? I suppose one could play the "he's an idea that exists within the cultural milieu of Western civilization" card, but then the next writer has him punch a homeless baby and what can you do? Besides post angry rants on Internet forums, I mean.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 18th 2024 at 1:56:28 PM

I will say that it's a legitimate criticism of Batman stories that they're often...probably not the best portrayal of mental illness. In fairness, I have seen it argued that they're also a pretty big middle finger to the inadequacies of mental health care in today's society.

Edited by Protagonist506 on Apr 18th 2024 at 10:57:44 AM

There Are No Therapists, etc.

Also, most superhero stories (and here Batman is practically the poster child) exalt vigilantism as a solution to crime, which ain't exactly how real life works.

Okay, fine. In the DCU, they are actively part of the problem. I don't see that as being any better.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 18th 2024 at 2:15:50 PM

Therapists do exist in the DC, it is just that they too get infected with madness.

Harley Quinn and Scarecrow are good examples.

Edited by jawal on Apr 18th 2024 at 7:23:16 PM

Honestly, I'd rather just keep a couple villains as actually mentally ill and needing actual therapy and write the rest off as assholes, either abusing the system to get treated lightly or just as an example of how inept the system is in Gotham.

Edited by Blueace on Apr 18th 2024 at 2:19:19 PM

If I had to draw any moral lesson from Batman stories, it would be that one person, no matter how rich and how committed, can't fix the problems of a major city all by themselves.

Bruce Wayne will be fighting a lonely war, forever, because he's fighting human nature itself... manifesting as a bunch of costumed weirdos with a smorgasbord of mental health issues.

I also would like to say that I think therapy is overrated as a solution to every problem.

Even though Real Life therapy can't help every person, there are people who can't be helped, or they need the removal of objective problems, before you can do that.

Yet There Are No Therapists imply that if only a setting has a therapist, then everything will be okay, the Big Bad will stop being evil, and everyone will live in peace.

Just like in Real Life where we do have therapy, and we live all happily thanks to it.

Edited by jawal on Apr 18th 2024 at 7:26:36 PM

Someone was analyzing the Arkham games and one of the things they noted is that Bruce Wayne donated a lot of money to Arkham Asylum. They argue that this actually presents an interesting aesop of sorts: Bruce tried to fix the problem by throwing money at it, but the institution of Arkham is simply too corrupt for that. In their interpretation, realizing his mistake is what caused him to become more actively political by the time the second game rolls around.

I'm not sure that's a healthy message to be sending even if it's true. "Yeah, your therapist? They don't really know what they're doing, and most of the time it doesn't work anyway."

Batman's stories don't want or need to concern themselves with the techniques or the success ratios of actual therapy. As I said earlier, they need to portray a man with severe, unresolved trauma beating up a succession of thugs with assorted psychiatric issues. Obviously the mental health care system in Gotham is fucked, along with everything else.

I'm not trying to be an ass about this, merely point out that sometimes (often) the Doylist answer is the only one we will ever get.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 18th 2024 at 2:31:56 PM

Well, the opposite will also be sending a false message: that therapy is a magical solution to every problem.

I mean, just to stay in Batman, the Joker will not be helped with therapy, and you won't reach out to him by encouraging him to talk about his problems.

All attempts to do so, ended with either the therapist himself going insane, or the Joker playing along to escape and kill the therapist.

Edited by jawal on Apr 18th 2024 at 7:35:31 PM

The Joker should be in a psych ward for the rest of his life, on a heavy dose of antipsychotics. Or in an oubliette, or dead from the number of times he's been punched by Batman.

The core unreality that supports the stories is that he's constantly loose and scheming. The writers do whatever they need to do to justify that.

Honestly two of the characters in my Cyberpunk Campaign could probably solve the Joker problem if they were in Gotham. Either Med-Kit gets through to him via therapy via the Medtech Role Ability... or Chloe Chaos puts a 14mm round through his head.

You also have to take into account that there may be a vested interest by some of the people at the top of the Gotham wealth ladder to deliberately keep the city in such a dysfunctional state, especially when some of Gotham's wealthy are crimelords themselves.

Sure Bruce and Wayne Enterprises might be a force of good in the city, but that means any of his competitors have a vested interest in deliberately making the city bad in order to kneecap Wayne Enterprises and fund their own enterprises.

Why hire Pinkertons when you can hire a Supervillain to dispose of your enemies, do some corporate sabotage, and steal competitor secrets? Why work to fix the inherent corruption in the system when you can profit off of it.

The many layers of economic rot in Gotham is likely the real reason why things don't change no matter how many villains Batman beats up, for better or worse this crime ridden dysfunctional system has become part of the economic system in Batman. It's a never ending Hydra because as long as there demand, supply will be found.