What makes a story 'deep'?

I had been wondering about this for awhile now but what makes a story'deep'? I had seen my fair share of stories that seem simple on the surface but are actually somewhat more than they appear although I wouldn't exactly call them 'deep'. After reading some of the posts here, it also seems to me that the whole story 'depth' is also somewhat subjective as what can be see as deep, profound literature can just as easily been seen as shallow and pointless. There are some stories that want to have a message, a lesson, a theme, a question and a point but they fail because the writer may or may not have the skills to pull them off correctly. It bothers me, what makes a story 'deep'? And how do those 'deep' stories come about anyway?

Some writers try to make their story 'deep' on purpose, by having the characters get involved in long, drawn-out philosophical arguments over fundamental concepts such as Good vs. Evil, or Free Will vs. Predestination. But whenever they do that, it comes off as sounding more like a dumbed-down lesson given to a slightly retarded child. And most readers don't appreciate a condescending author. (I know I don't.)

Is it possible to use high concepts while telling a good story?

edited 25th Dec '16 5:05:27 PM by GAP

Yes, absolutely. The difficulty lies not in what you say, but in how you say it.

A "deep" discussion between two characters is often the wrong approach to take. Sometimes the two come at the issue from diametrically opposed viewpoints, and never the twain shall meet. Other times, one character is a naïve "everyman" meant to be an author surrogate, while the other is a wise old sage who seems to know everything. Neither approach, however, allows for any sort of middle ground between the two.

Personally, I've found it far more engaging when the "deep" issues are explored via an internal struggle that the protagonist has to come to terms with on his own, often remembering what various people said to him over the course of his life, that he didn't understand at the time, but that he begins to grasp now that he's got some life experience of his own to compare it against. The internal monologue works better than the external debate, in my estimation.

This post is pretty darn good at what people THINK a deep story is. Navel-gazing and twenty pages of talking about morality are NOT necessarily deep.

For me personally, deep stories are the ones that explore their subject matter naturally. A fairy-tale about the hero saving the princess from the dragon, with a fifty-fifty chance of marrying said princess, is not a deep story at its heart. It's about how good people rescue others from bad things, and get rewarded.

If the story DOESN'T end when the princess is saved and starts exploring how she feels about either marrying or not marrying the hero, if she's glad about it or not, and how she has to get used to being around other people again after weeks/months of being stuck in a cave/tower with a dragon. Meanwhile, the hero would either be expecting to marry the princess because he rescued her, or NOT expecting to marry her because he just wants to help a kingdom in distress and he either forgot or doesn't care about that whole "reward" thing.

That would be pretty deep because 1) it's a realistic consequence of what happens when someone's been kidnapped for a lengthy span of time, and 2) it forces us to think about how many times we've read those types of stories and not given much thought to the actual people IN them.

I was going to add Show, Don't Tell, and I can't believe that I forgot about it earlier.

Talk is cheap, and actions speak louder than words, especially if it is shown that those actions have consequences, particularly unforeseen consequences. Good intentions that ultimately lead to grief, for example.

edited 25th Dec '16 6:13:39 PM by pwiegle

Mostly, I think you just need to take a look at the word deep and consider what it means. For a work to be "deep" means that it pays attention to elements that exist beneath the surface of the events it portrays. A deep work will strive to express why the characters in it behave as they do.

The conflict makes it interesting, but showing all the characters' messages is what gives a story depth.

And more, naturally.

If I'm saying a story is deep, what I'm saying is that there always seems to be more to think about and discover in the layers of meaning and interpretation and nuance when one comes back to it. It's a well of new experiences that one may come back to again and again and always be refreshed.

Saying non-trivial things. If you are going to touch on philosophical topics, deep means going beyond what you can find in a textbook or in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. But frankly, I would advise writers to go off the beaten path, and avoid topics that are simply considered deep by definition. The deeper the subject is held to be, the greater the temptation to just mention it to fill one's profundity quota for the day and then limit oneself to a few hackneyed platitudes about it. Writing about a topic that isn't considered part of "high" culture forces you to think further.